New Youth HPL league

[mtkb]

$2500 would actually be a savings of more than 50% for the provincial team players, snicker...

I dont doubt that "we" will be able to sell parents on the utility of HPL... I also dont doubt that there IS utility in HPL!

The problem is that no matter how much some parents will want to pay the $2500 for their son or daughter to play HPL, they simply wont be able to afford to at that price point. I think this will be a far more common occurence than the people organizing the league / HPL clubs realize, perhaps because a disporportionate number of them are in a high-income bracket.

Mountain's general manager and I discussed the number of Burnaby Select players currently playing year round, either with Y League or the Provincial Team. The number is at best 50-60 %. Dont think for a second that the top 50-60% in our club are the ones playing year round. Yet, it is the top 50-60% of Select League players that will make up HPL (in this regard, I dont know how Base can say that only 4-5 players will make HPL - the numbers are necessarily higher across the board, and one might expect teams at the top of their leagues to place more players in HPL than average...).

My point is that we need to have our "the emperor has no clothes on" moment. We do have lots of quality coaches in the lower mainland. We dont need to pay them all thousands and thousands of dollars to entice them to coach at the highest level. My club has a slate of coaches that volunteer because they enjoy coaching - what a concept!!!

Moreover, our parents cant afford to pay the coaches this amount, nor should we be asking them to. Let the for-profit entities like Sportstown charge the parents as much as then can get away with - thats a voluntary choice that a parent can make if they so wish.

HPL is supposed to be THE place to play if your child is good enough, and you want him / her to have the best challenge and best coaching available, so that his / her development is best served. That being the case, the idea that parents must pay a pretty penny for access to all of that is ridiculous to the point of offensive, in my opinion...

 

[bettermirror]

This might be where and why franchises might want to seriously explore sponsorship. Also, if the cost is not affordable surely the clubs will have programs to assist kids in paying these fees? There are also some sport funding programs. If a family truly is low income they can access those programs - I don't know what the exceptions are to those programs. People should not look at the cost and say "I can't afford it." They should look at it and say "I can't afford, I wonder if the club will help me? If that club won't help me maybe another HPL franchise will."?? Take it for what it is worth.

 

[mtkb]

They should, but whether they will or not is not a gamble we can afford to take if we are trying to reach our best young talent...

I keep hearing people fall back to "well, the clubs will help out". With what exactly? At $2500 its not just people below the poverty line that will struggle to come up with the fees... Heaven forbid you have two or even three children all going through at the same time... Roughly ten percent of my club's players are "hardship" cases... we get $100 from Kidsport (assuming we can get the players to do the requisite paperwork) and that's it. We eat the other $400. An HPL franchise would have to eat the remaining $2400... per hardship case...

 

[Mr Base]

MTKB good on you, you are trying to bring it out to people. As you know the spots are about who has the money to pay for developmernt. At HPL level you will have tweny five guys that can play. You need 18, onley one of those kids can be a harship child. Clubs are not going to give you money. They are out there to make money and to keap going what they have. You as a young guy moving forward can not feel sorrey for no one. Tha's the brakes of life. Some have some don't. You can not help all. I am sure if these kids go to church. Churches would help the kids. It is about time for young guys to be part of our community. If I were you you shold not worry about the coast. There is many guys that can pay. Teams are going to full it does not matter what. Kids from Surrey and other places will be asking and trying out. Charge twenty five dollars a chuild to try out. Hardship player can be covered by that. That's the way Provincial sides do it. You guys will give them dam good program and a talented coaches what more do they need. That's somthing that you as a future leader have to forget. All you say, here it is,this is the coast, are you in or not? And that is all. If you go to Europe to try out they will tell you after second practice if you will get a contract or not. Simple fast and straight. That's the only way. In this HPL level forget the friends. Do the job your kids get called out to National program. You will have twenty guys trying to get in.

 

[Dude]

The problem is that no matter how much some parents will want to pay the $2500 for their son or daughter to play HPL, they simply wont be able to afford to at that price point. I think this will be a far more common occurence than the people organizing the league / HPL clubs realize, perhaps because a disporportionate number of them are in a high-income bracket.

Mountain's general manager and I discussed the number of Burnaby Select players currently playing year round, either with Y League or the Provincial Team. The number is at best 50-60 %. Dont think for a second that the top 50-60% in our club are the ones playing year round. Yet, it is the top 50-60% of Select League players that will make up HPL (in this regard, I dont know how Base can say that only 4-5 players will make HPL - the numbers are necessarily higher across the board, and one might expect teams at the top of their leagues to place more players in HPL than average...).

Thank you.

Bettermirror, this basically substantiates what I and a couple of others have been trying to point out...great idea, but badly flawed planning. To put this out there now in the form it is currently set-up is a big mistake in the making.

This might be where and why franchises might want to seriously explore sponsorship. Also, if the cost is not affordable surely the clubs will have programs to assist kids in paying these fees? There are also some sport funding programs. If a family truly is low income they can access those programs - I don't know what the exceptions are to those programs. People should not look at the cost and say "I can't afford it." They should look at it and say "I can't afford, I wonder if the club will help me? If that club won't help me maybe another HPL franchise will."?? Take it for what it is worth.

This is just not a good enough answer to the biggest barrier the HPL will face. Sorry man, I know you badly want this thing, and if done right I see the benefits, but you're not doing the league any service by continuing to be a yes man. If there are flaws, and you're in a position to be heard and taken seriously, then speak up.

That applies to anyone else who's reading this, possibly sitting on their club board having applied for a franchise...this is a major flaw, and a major mistake to shove this through without propper planning.

 

[cassis]

If there are flaws, and you're in a position to be heard and taken seriously, then speak up.

As insignificant as my voice is amongst the clamor of the soccer cognoscenti, I nevertheless add it to this view. Even though I still believe value and not cost is the biggest reason why HPL will suffer, I have come around to your way of thinking, mtkb, and think that cost will keep people from joining, while, for those that do join, value (or the lack thereof), may cause them to leave.

The community that has largely been left out of the loop is the consumer of the products and services - the parents and players. Yes there are websites and blogs that 90% of parents/players (youth anyway) have never heard of or visited. It is only now that announcements and meetings are being setup at clubs. Ours is on Feb 10th, a mere few weeks prior to tryouts. How in blazes are the masses supposed to ingest, synthesize and plan for an HPL? Yes I know its really only aimed at the few, but, as has been well chronicled here and elsewhere, there will be major impacts to the second (and third and...) levels. What is a parent to do? I for one, don't have a child old enough for HPL yet. And while those that should know tell me they think my child is good enough for HPL, I wonder if HPL will be good enough for my child. I'm not saying that as an elitist who thinks my kid is too skilled for HPL, but as someone who happens to think that there is an alternative (e.g. play Metro/Select for a coach who cares, supplemented by academy training).

I think that it's often easy to say "wait". For many situations (system implementations, having a baby, finishing your degree, etc) nothing and/or no one is ever fully ready. And so it is with this. It would also be unfair to say that no planning has been done; that individuals and organizations have recently stumbled on this idea; that all the effort to date on the part of BCSA, the HPL Committee, and FCs have been fruitless. There has, they haven't, and it hasn't. Nevertheless, 2 months is simply not enough to properly launch what could be the best idea to hit BC Soccer in decades.

However, the reality is that, like it or not, HPL is here, now. Unless no one shows up to register or clubs fail to meet basic requirements, it will go ahead. Since it can't be stopped, perhaps it can be delayed just a little? I would suggest we scrap the fall mini-season and instead use the balance of the year to finalize club identities, hire & train staff, create and execute a communications plan, reach an understanding of the programming (there will be league requirements for programming won't there? Please tell me it isn't going to be every coach for him/herself is it?), and develop sponsorships (with business) and partnerships (possibly with government and especially for low-income families).

I sincerely wish the inaugural HPLers all the best. May it prove to be all that it's cracked up to be.

 

[SCP]

Love the concept of the HPL...the biggest stumbling block for the kids/parents will be the cost of the program...this could of all be avoidable if Rule 23 ( out of district ) was not in place in the first place...this would allow the kids to play anywhere as in the case of the HPL and limit the number of Metro Teams...

 

[cassis]

...this could of all be avoidable if Rule 23 (out of district) was not in place in the first place...this would allow the kids to play anywhere as in the case of the HPL and limit the number of Metro Teams...

Then why hasn't SYL worked?

 

[bettermirror]

How has SYL not worked?

 

[wednesday]

I've asked that question early on. Still don't know the answer but apparently it didn't work to the extent that Washington and Oregon got out and now in BC the HPL has been invented to replace it.

 

[cassis]

Coaches I have spoken to who have coached SYL and/or are very familiar with the league have indicated that SYL has not been able to maintain the level of play and development which was originally envisioned; that it too has been watered down; that the best teams in the LM are in Metro/Select. And before you mention all the positive results of Y-league teams in the LM, please understand I am not condemning it as a league or even belittling its value. But ask yourself why we need an HPL if SYL were meeting the player identification & development requirements? Clearly, SYL isn't doing the job even without a Rule 23 so I ask again why hasn't the removal of Rule 23 from SYL given everyone in BC what they need?

The obvious answer, based on empirical evidence, is that Rule 23 has little to do with the success or failure of a league. I'm not saying I'm for Rule 23; I most certainly am not. But I think its often used as an excuse as to why soccer has been unable to develop properly in this region. I believe that reasoning is flawed.

 

[bettermirror]

One thing people are overlooking is the (a) poor performances of the BC Team, (b) fairly poor performances of club teams at nationals and (c) the fact that lower mainland BC is out of sync with the soccer calendar the rest of the province and country has in place. not to mention poor development standards - ie, no set criteria. This is why metro needs to be moved to spring-summer-fall. Of course you can't have both SYL and HPL concurrent without continually watering down the talent as has happened at metro.

Moving out of SYL allows BC more flexibility in it rules, allows for the top tier to match the national soccer calendar and send relevant teams to the national finals in November rather than teams thrown back together months later, and allows for proper player identification at the Provincial and NTC levels....not to mention feeding into the Whitecaps at USSDA and potentially then Residency.

I know I now sound like a BCSA employee, but these are serious highlights and make perfect sense to me. The cost thoughm, of $2500...that will need to be supplemented when at all possible. Because yes, it is high.

 

[Mr Base]

To you all, Metro teams are not the best players. It is players that't want to play Metro. There is six kids per each team that are totaly not athetic,not good enough to play at that level. Some of those kids go to SYL and try to play against US sides. We are then not at the same level as clubs we get to play in a tournament formation from US. Some clubs in SYL are good. That's the clubs with good player pool.
With HPL that part of non athlitic will non existant. It will show way more, kids non athletic will move down the ladder. We must be good to get the calling from upper coaches. They are looking for game breakers.
Passive players can not compeat in high pace all out attacking soccer. They get trouble moving at right time. Gaps form on the field. Teams loose. Coaches from National program look fot those few strong skilled fast tough two way players. We makke mistakes in our first selections.

 

[Outwest]

Yes, in the absence some form of market research the HPL folks have assumed that many/most Metro players would jump at HPL, but Super Y shows that not to be the case, the kids want their spring/summer off for other things. And the teams I know of, it was all about that trip to Florida so there were families who paid a lot of money for their kids to be parked on the bench. Given the cost and length of schedule (precluding other activities) I wonder if even 6 teams will fly (at the same standard). I need to be convinced of the marginal value of this over limiting the metro leagues to an appropriate number of teams with a reasonable geographic distribution (carbon neutral!), and sticking with the existing schedule so the various levels are all synchronized. Afterall, the coach and player pools are basically going to be the same anyway.

I think more important than Rule 23 are the restrictions on moving players among levels easily, as would be the case in a true club system.

 

[GEORDIE]

Article from the Surrey Leader Surrey Leader - New top tier in B.C. soccer

It mentions a trial run this spring . What age age groups will be involved in the trial run this spring ?

 

[bettermirror]

There is a trial run in Fall. Best guess is that is a typo. The fall will be u13-u18 and play 7-8 exhibition games each.

 

[Lugann]

Dude you're right. I sat in on an executive meeting a month and a half ago and of course, talk of HPL was unavoidable. A couple top members had recently attended an HPL meeting, Q&A if you will. From what I understand, a lot of questions couldn't be answered. "If this were a proposal at a bank, they'd be advised not to let the door/on the way out".

Still we had many clubs scrambling for mergers and because of the disdain amongst some, it's no wonder the Panel ever heard from the collective to... "Wait a friggin' minute." "Do your home work and come back to us with something solid."

 

[Dude]

"If this were a proposal at a bank, they'd be advised not to let the door/on the way out".

Great analogy, but take it a step further...BDC wouldn't even look at this. Too many holes, not enough substance, not enough homework.

 

[mtkb]

BC sent out their 25 page HPL prospectus at 11 pm the night before the meeting of the District Chairs that was to provide support (or not) to HPL. It was dressed up as a Q and A session, but Burnaby's District Chair was the only one interested in asking pointed questions.

BC has played the political game very well - they have bullied the Districts into submitting in that no one wants to piss them off and ruin their chances at getting a franchise...

The ideas are great, but the timeline and cost are not. I suspect discourse has been stifled because BC is well aware, but figures that if they dont ram this down our throats it will never get done. I actually have some sympathy for that thinking - because I do think HPL COULD have a lot to offer if done right - but if you're gonna drive a bus off a cliff you should at least outfit it with an emergency brake...

As for Rule 23, my area stands to benefit in some regards in that Burnaby is fairly central geographically. It takes a dedicated parent to drive from the North Shore to Richmond three nights a week; not so much for a parent to drive from Coquitlam to Burnaby (or visa versa).

The danger I see is that the top players may gravitate to the top team / coach, because they can. You already see it with Provincial Team head / assistant team coaches taking a club side on in the fall, and magically their team gets stacked with OOD provincial team kids. I wonder how that happened. And now we're gonna take the OOD restrictions off... The risk I see is that one team gets stacked beyond belief and the whole point of HPL - better competition across the board - never materializes...

 

[4thplacetrophy]

At every age there is gonna be one or two good teams consisting of the best players, might as well keep the Syl.