Pay the Players

[Tomasiker]

I've recently bagan playing soccer here in Italy and what I've noticed is how serious the players take the game. We seem to always blame poor coaching for our lack of success in producing quality international players and quality international results. But, part of the blame must be placed on the players. I've played in the Vancouver Metro League for several years and my team had to constantly battle to get 10 guys to training. This I understand is the problem with most if not all the teams in the best league in Vancouver. Players do not get better if they don't practice. Now I understand that players have jobs or school to attend to, but this is something that has to change before we will see any positive results. I play in a lower division here in Italy where all the players work. Some of the players on my team are still trying to make the big jump and some are finishing their careers from the higher divisions including the Serie A. All the players are paid though and as a result, all show up for training. We are not paid much (around $500/month) but it makes the difference. We are also paid incentives for winning and tieing games which detracts players from partying and drinking before games. I remember in Vancouver, players showing up to games still hung over. Forget about a Canadian Pro League for now and start up a lower mainland league where players get paid incentives/expenses and people have to pay a couple of bucks to watch. Have owners/investors for each team to provide the money and the players would become property of the team. For now, this would go a long way to help create at least the base that we currently lack.

 

[GhostRider]

Right direction

That is a good post above and I agree with everything in it in principle. However, there are a few issues that aren't addressed. Two of them being;

1) Not enough clubs in the lower mainland have a support that is willing to pay to watch them play.

2) There aren't enough enclosed facilities to accomodate ticket-paying spectators.

Any thoughts?

 

[Tomasiker]

With regards to not enough support, this is something that comes with time. Look at the BCJHL where teams like the Burnaby Bulldogs attract decent crowd. I was thinking about the enclosed field situation and I believe something can be worked out. It doesn't take much to put some stands and a fence around say, Beaconsfield. Teams could also share home fields like Swangard. But ultimately, it would be ideal if each team has its own home park with a grass lighted practice facility. Each team here in Italy have them and it makes a difference not to have to practice on gravel, a surface you don't play on on Sundays.

 

[Hands of Stone]

What's Up, Tomasi

How's things going in Italy, were you able to see Canada win gold on Sunday.

Are you coming back to Van. any time soon, Friuuuuuuliiiiiiii starts up soon and Daravio is back and ready to roll.

In regards to the comparison with the local Jr. hockey, the Bulldogs are struggling at the gate right now, and there is talk that they may be moving to a small town on the Island.
I think that the Van. Giants have really hurt that team this year, but this is a different issue.

I think a solution that may help local soccer, would be a Super league in the area, say Ten top teams in the Pacific North West.
Vancouver, Valley, Upper Island, Lower Island, Interior, and 5 other teams in the States. Our league right now is good for a guy that wants to go out on the weekend and have a kick around, but with some regionalization for teams, then you could maybe get local sponsors, and a small enclosed field, where fans would be charged to watch.

BCFC has been working on getting it's own facility for a number of years now, it is very difficult to do, but if we achieve it, we will be like some of the Rugby teams in the lower mainland, with their own Clubhouse, and an enclosed field that the club owns.

Revenue could be made from the facility, through soccer schools, food and booze sales in the club house, and rental of the fields. This revenue could then go back into the team and players.

HOSpipedream

 

[Tomasiker]

Hey HOS....... don't know who you are but Italy is going really well. As for Friuli, I'm sorry to say but I will not be a part of the funnest team on the planet. Soccer is amazing here as it's fun to come to the park and have people who live for the team. I saw Canada win gold on Monday as a buddy of mine recorded the game for me. The game was shown only on the dish and every bar was showing the Juve-Torino derby. With regards to that super league, thats what I'm getting at. But, the players should get some compensation.

Give me a hint as to who u r.

 

[CDK]

There is a league like that called the PCSL. Croatia played in it before but ended up scaring all the other clubs away to the VMSL with their total domination. The only clubs that can draw a fan support, other than the Croats, are the Greeks if they could ever put a decent club together, the Portuguese if they could ever put a decent club together and the I-ties if they could ever put together a team that was as good as Columbus was back in the '60's, 70's and '80's.

I doubt anybody would pay to watch Metro-Ford, Peg, Burnaby Canucks or Westside play.

 

[Tomasiker]

CDK I wouldn't pay to watch those teams either but, because the players are usually gunned during the games. If players got serious about the sport, like back in the days that you were talking about, then people would come to watch. The VMSL is a joke and will continue to be until it gets serious. Money, and particularily to to the players would give it seriousness.

 

[Hands of Stone]

Where are the Fans

You talk of the PCSL, but the only team to get people out to watch is Kelowna or Seattle, these teams also have some money for thier players and work in the form of soccer camps in the summer.
Croatia and any other ethnic team in this city or province, has a beer and a panine (sp) for you after the game. Some of these ethnic teams have some money too, but they wont get together to build thier own facility and start camps for the Croat kids or Wop kids.

Look at the Van. Explorers and all the money that was put into that ethnic team, but even with them playing out of Swangard and doing alot of advertising in the Asian community, they still didn't get anywhere.

Teams need their own park and someone with a thick wallet to get started, and then hopefully through work make money off the youth camps.
Don't tell me there is no money in youth camps, because look at all the soccer schools out there and the kind of money they are pulling in.

HOSwantsananswer
Tomasiyouplayedinfrontofme

 

[The Apprentice]

HOS AND TOMASIKER,

The Ital league would pay you guys top dollar to just be regulars on the sidelines. Tomasiker was a true living legend evident of him having the crowd at swangard chant his name. Hos on the Other hand was giving out rebounds like it was christmas

 

[Hands of Stone]

Do you want me to change your Diapers

Teddy TA try playing in the league for 10 years and then come and talk to me about CJmas

You are as green as the ditch weed that you like to smoke.

HOSmas

 

[Tomasiker]

weed for feed

Nice to hear my coogeens after such a long time. Apprentice, what if we sold weed to pay the players? Or, even better, pay the players with weed? I'm sure you would stay home sat night if it meant you were going to play better and thus cash in on some bonus weed. Or no? Hos, how's married life? Miss you guys man and I'll miss Friuli. Have a pint for me.

 

[Hands of Stone]

The Bench is Still Around

The Friuli bench will come out of storage for another year, but it won't be the same without Tomasi.
Marriage is good, work is the same, and soccer is not so bad.

If you get a chance to come back and visit, come for the I-league dinner and finals, we will be in both again this year.

How is work and soccer in Italy, what is the name of the team you are playing for and what div. is it.

Regs I know this could be a PM, but others might want to know, and the apprentice will be happy that I am talking about the I-league after ACM was hammered on the weekend.

HOS

 

[The Apprentice]

HOS, Thanks for thinking about me.

 

[Guinness]

PCSL

Still up and running... has the potential to be a great League, however too many top end footballers choose to take it easy in the summer for many personal reasons... many districts are well represented and funded... two of the ethnic teams (Explorers & Khalsa) the Vancouver Explorers are complicated to say the least... great funding, quality product on the pitch and a great venue, but no fan base!!! the problem is most of their top players are not from the Asian community... Khalsa is up and down as far as performance goes... one week they are world beaters, the next only 11 men show up... they seem to have the funding behind them, so I don't know the problem... (maybe HOS can elaborate for us)... Seattle are always top notch in every area, they are a perfect example of how a team in this League should be... although last year their Stadium was not readily available each week due to renos... The Okanagan Challenge are back this year and have a great fan base and are sponsored extremely well... Penticton's only problem is the product they put on the park... last year they were descent early on (with the Langara boys travelling up their), but as every year, people stop travelling up there for home matches... Victoria always does well playing out of Royal Athletic Park... they always seem to draw 500-1000 fans...us in Surrey are going into our 4th season... with many veteran players taking a few months off in the summer the load is carried by a mix of youth and experience... the Challenge Cup Final (which we hosted & won) last season was a total success complete with a great venue and Beer Garden in which to view the match from!!!
so this League does have the foundation in which to work, it's just up to a few more communities getting their act together and putting the essential ideals in place (ie)funding, venue and players etc...

Cheers, Guinness

 

[Tomasiker]

Work and soccer both going well here. Soccer is finally getting better as I've been riding the pine since I've signed. We've gotten into some injury problems so I've now gotten a real chance to play and probably won a spot for good. Happen to have to work in Milan on Sat. so I picked up tickets for Inter-Juve on Sat. night. Should be good. As for the PCSL, this type of league has to be a winter thing. But, this is the going in the right direction. Do players in the PCSL get paid? Apprentice, tragic weekend for AC Milan here too.

 

[Guinness]

Payed Players

Well I know of a few circumstances where individuals are paid, but that is few and far between... They do however add incentives and pay all expences as well as some clubs give perdium money for meals and such... I know a few lads that played in Kelowna (Okanagan Challenge) and they were set up for the night after victory... Pints, food etc... they were also given jobs and had their rent payed for... I'm not too sure about other clubs... It has the framework to be a great League... as for playing in the winter, the facilities are the greatest concern... lights on descent grass fields and then keeping those pitches in playable condition after half the provinces youth teams use them, also weather in places such as the Okanagan don't suit the winter game... from the rumblings around BC Soccer it seems they want to make all Leagues summer??? I don't know why, but it does have something to do with the rest of Canada playiong in the summer...

 

[Zaurrini]

Mr TomasiKer

Check your PM

 

[Dude]

This is a great topic.

I agree that this would need to be implemented in the spring / summer, for a couple of reasons:

· To play along side the rest of Canada
· To allow the interior to compete (they have the facilities already in the Okanagan and Kamloops)
· To give Universities / pro leagues an ideal season to scout.

I think you take HOS & Tomasi’s ideas, and take them a step further though. The fact is, you only want serious players involved. What about offering to pay in the form of Scholarships or RESPs? The idea is to encourage the better, younger players to train to make the team. One of the incentives has to be that a player can use soccer to get his education paid for. Our University system doesn’t currently allow for that. The BC Athletic assistance program only offers a small stipend, and the cash value of Canadian University scholarships are extremely limited- unlike the NCAA. Since that doesn’t appear to be changing anytime soon, perhaps a system similar to the WHL should be implemented- taken a step further. For older players, who have perhaps already had their education, the scholarship can be passed on to their siblings or children (i.e.: HOS junior could get it).

Basically, the PCSL already has a model to expand on. The teams need to be run by the Clubs. There are a number that can make it work: ICSF, Croatia, BCFC, SFC, Surrey United, Metro Ford, Coquitlam City, Poco City. Add in communities like the Greeks, Portuguese, Sikhs, and Fijians, and the desire is there to make it happen. Finally, you need a business plan. Fan support is great for those clubs that would draw it in, but the majority of the revenue would need to come from other sources anyhow. Like HOS said: Youth soccer camps, sponsors, and clubhouses. Clubs like BCFC, Surrey United, SFC, and Croatia already have the facilities for the restaurant idea. Booze = revenues. If the education angle is tied in, you could even look to the various levels of governments for assistance- like grants and low lease rates. Basically, a plan needs to be drawn up bringing all the stakeholders together. To be involved in the league, the individual clubs would need to meet certain league implemented guidelines, year after year.

In a nutshell, this venture needs to be run as a co-op, or “Not for profit” society. All profits need to go back to the clubs, where it is sunk back into soccer. That is how it is done now anyhow (I believe).

 

[Tomasiker]

I think another direction you could go is to get people with deep pockets to throw in their own money to run their own team. Values would be placed on players and owners could buy or sell players. These players would get paid compensation by their respective teams for their rights. There are legal implications I'm sure but it works in Europe. I'm sure you could find investors who like to play owner. The WHL idea is also an interesting one though and I still think this has to be done in the winter.

 

[Dude]

My only worry about that is not finding owners w/ deep pockets- it isn’t too hard to find those- but more the stability issue. The owner would need to have a second and third revenue generator to be profitable. Most people won’t continuously fund a team at a loss- even if it can be considered a tax write-off. I think they would at break-even or better. My worry would be that you would see too many teams dropping year-in, year-out. By running it through the clubs as a non-profit society, the club avails itself to outside help from other areas. Sponsors can donate money and get a tax-deductible receipt, and governments will be more inclined to help subsidize the program.

The idea here is that the league is operated for the entire benefit of soccer development, and the benefit of the players. If an owner has all the power, they may be as likely to pull the carpet out from underneath the team the minute another business deal goes sour.

Being able to buy / sell players is a good idea. That could still take place under the guise of the non-profit system. Under this system, the club could still employ a coach / director of player personnel and a director of business operations. These are two positions that would surely need to be paid positions in order to do it right.