Referee Improvement

[Yoda]

If you pay them more, wouldn't you get more useless tits picking up whistles to earn a few extra bucks? Would that make the refing better or worse?

I liked it better when you had refs doing it for the joy of reffing not for the money. Those days are few and far between, and the abuse they take doesn't make picking up a whistle very inviting for new ones.

I'd rather see money spent on training new good refs rather than change existing ones. What do they say about old dogs?

 

[LION]

Perhaps if you raise the rate and put a certain amount of the yearly budget aside for ref certification, you can find refs from the player pool out there.

It's the same faces for the last 15 years with no young blood coming through. But if it was more accessible and promoted from the local leagues they could find 4-5 x-players to mentor and develop in to good refs.

I've thought about it many times. Get a good run and not have to get kicked by 38 year old tough guys.
Where would one start anyways?
How accessible is it if you did want to ref at the men's level?

 

[Dude]

Yoda- by increasing the numbers through various initiatives, of course you'll increase both the number of good and bad refs. For sure. Point being, the cream always rises to the top. As it is now, that cream rising to the top is in very short supply.

 

[Yoda]

Not sure what or if each Club does anything for initiating interest in refereeing but I know Poco has young players refereeing youth games at the U10,11,12ish ages which i think, with good experiences, can build future refs. However we went to langley for a game at Willoughby and got a 60+ year old ref for a U12 game, who barely spoke English, or knew the rules, and fully intended on playing on after a shot clearly hit the top of the fence behind the net and bounced up into play again.
Sometimes it's hard to explain to kids that he doesn't know what he's doing and doesn't know the rules when a referee has confused the kids so much. But maybe it's his lack of knowledge that has him reffing that age group. I don't know. But it's frustrating for kids as well as parents when coaches have to come on the field to explain the rules.

Obviously part of the supply demand problem
Is there any club involvement in referee building?

 

[LION]

I think x players would be the best refs. At least they have a sense of the game etc.
I'm sure there are a handful of players graduating in to masters that the leagues could get reffing.

Put a league scholarship program in.
Market it on the websites. Give a free intro course or first step course. Within a few seasons have a goal to have 5-10 men put through a the program.

If it was a problem to find good refs for the leagues, I certainly haven't seen or heard anything that they are looking for some. With a door open etc.
So where does one start?
Does anyone even know?

 

[Yoda]

Maybe part of getting ex players is the fact that guys can still play competitively until they are into their mid to late 40's?
And given most 40 year old bodies, you can either do soccer or reffing, but not both. And given the choice most will pick soccer

 

[machel]

There's a few refs who want me to pick up the whistle. Mainly because my level of play on the field has been shocking the last few seasons

Apparently after certification you have to ref youth for a year and then you can ref adult soccer.

https://www.bcsoccer.net/referee-clinics

I'm in my late 30s and I know some refs still play as well in their 40's. Really good discussion here.

 

[Dude]

I can speak for Surrey United's: it was excellent. Noel is our head referee for the club and organizes clinics. We went to him to have one specifically for our girls. It was a full day and excellent experience for the girls. They were more informed players for the experience.

At Surrey United you see a lot of youth officials. My question is, are they staying with it? My bet is a lot become disenchanted, and leave it behind.

 

[LION]

Yes, Dude, that is probably the case. The skin isn't as thick when your that young.

Yoda, yes but I am sure if its $100 a game and your on the line of even getting many minutes in masters, then why not.
Perhaps a finder fee for mens club?
So the clubs promote it with in? $500 if you have a successful candidate sent over and that puts in a year. etc etc..
Throw some money at it and the people will come out of the wood work that was on the fence earlier.

I say its easier and better to catch players on their way out then on their way in the game. The skin has grown thick, and they actually have soccer experience etc.

I don't know if I would be in to the youth part, but if its needed, then its needed.

 

[Dude]

That is a great point, and you are right. Several former TTPers have done exactly that, and enjoyed it. Fat Monkey, Captain Shamrock to name a couple. Ironically, I bet both would do it for free. For certain, Todd has told me himself he doesn't believe money would bring in more refs, but he does this for altruistic reasons: to stay in the game, to give back, and because he genuinely enjoys it. As for CS, I think we all know for him that it isn't about the money at all.

But I still believe you (and I) are right...money helps move the needle. Maybe a guy who's body is too banged up to play, but wants to stay active in the game, and that extra little bit is enough of an incentive. I can think of a couple of guys this would speak to.

 

[LION]

I'm almost there myself.
Great way to stay fit, be around the game, and make some cash as well. Sure beats running on a tread mill. I think.

 

[Dude]

Great point.

I've been running on a treadmill 3 x a week this winter due to all the snow. My next run may be straight off the Port Mann Bridge.

Maybe I'll get involved in refereeing in Whistler...

Or, fcuk that, skiing is better.

 

[Dude]

So, one particular bag-of-dicks got vocal about this in another thread, and now all of a sudden has lost his voice. What a poser.

 

[LION]

Perhaps we make it a package deal. Like when the Uppal family comes to ref a game.

You, I and Yoda, package it up. lol But we split the minutes in the middle. Only fair. 30 min each.

 

[Dude]

I know one thing... @whistle blower would LOVE to play in a game any one of us ref. It'd make his fcuking day!

 

[Rangerforever]

not have to get kicked by 38 year old tough guys.

Oh whatever, you still came in for a beer with us after the match and don't say that wasn't fun.

 

[Rangerforever]

You haven't changed in 20 years Lion.

 

[TheRob]

That is a great point, and you are right. Several former TTPers have done exactly that, and enjoyed it. Fat Monkey, Captain Shamrock to name a couple. Ironically, I bet both would do it for free.

I've been doing both for the last five years, and love it. But I wouldn't do it for free. Not a chance.

I don't think paying more would increase the quality of officiating at all. In fact I think it would actually make it worse. You'd get the crappy guys reffing more to make more money. There are guys up here that will do 4-5 games a day. Think how crappy a 60 year old man would be in his fourth game of the day in the summer up here. Brutal. Personally I limit myself to 2 and I try to leave at least a game gap between.

 

[freddy]

It would be easier if they would let you use a Segway like the mall cops, maybe attach a PA so your whistle and voice could be heard from farther away, plus an on-board camera and replay screen; optional cooler with beer. I think I have something of value for FIFA to consider.

 

[Canucks4Ever]

So....supply and demand.....

In any professional field or trade, what is the first thing industry does to attract more talent?

Second thing?

Improve pay, and improve benefits / work conditions.

Guys are abusing the system because they can. They know the ref pool is small, so they are able to stick their hand up the muppet's backside.

You need more youth picking up a whistle, then you need them to stick around.

More pay. Better benefits and conditions.

Says the guy who "in no way- will want [his] daughter becoming a ref"...

Are we to assume then that you'd be okay with it then if the "conditions and pay" improved???

The point is the entire system needs an overhaul. "Referee Development" was never a focus in the Canadian soccer landscape. Look how many we have on the FIFA list, there's just no pathway unless you are entirely self motivated. It's the same as players. You have to start at the grassroots, revamp the system and then nurture it for a generation.

Former players is a good start, but as has been said, most guys want to cling on to playing as long as possible. Education is another big thing, all the way around. Coaches and players need to know the laws so they can understand the calls during the game. Sure there will always be debate about "whether or not it was a foul," but as an official there is nothing worse than having someone vehemently argue with you over something they are flat out wrong about. That ignorance is a real tough one to confront sometimes and not every referee handles it well.

Then there is referee education, especially for the ones who never played the game at a high level. Let's face it, lots of refs are the guys who played casually and then decided that, to stay involved in the game, they would get in to officiating. As much as the laws try to make things as black and white as possible, there is so much grey involved. As referees we often discuss the fictional "Law 18"- common sense. Guys who have never played at a high level can have a tough time getting a read on when there is malice in a tackle, or if something is a "professional" foul or when a guy is just wound up based on the game/stakes etc. You have to be able to take the temperature of the game and that's an art at times. That's the skill the best officials in the world have. At the same time that needs to be paired with humility. Nobody is perfect and with the sheer number of decisions that are made in a game, you are going to get one wrong every now and then. If you are out there for a power trip (like the kid who became a cop because he was bullied in school) it's not going to end well for anybody. The best referees have a rapport with the players and coaches where there's some give and take.

It's an imperfect science, which brings us around to the problem of who manages this? We need guys being assessed and held to a standard. We need kids exposed to the profession and then developed and enticed to stick with it. We need our best officials doing the best games every week. The scope is massive and there's literally no one in charge of it. Individual leagues have list of officials who are available, but I would doubt any of them keep more than maybe a informal hierarchy of the those referees, based on ability. Do you start Provincially? Regionally? There is a loose system based on licensing classification, but overall most referees are just at the district/regional level (they used to have "Classes" for refereeing but they brought out fancy new labels going on a decade ago). The question is how do we organize these officials, who do the majority of the games, so that best ones are doing the best games and everyone else has a chance to improve and progress? Bringing order to chaos is never easy I suppose...