Div 1 [VMSL Div 1] Predictions, Results & Banter 2016/2017

[SoccerStud]

player off the Bellingham United Evergreen Premier League

who was the player?

 

[bandcamp]

When a team wins a coach never gets credit when it loses he/she always gets blamed.

I believe the exact opposite can be said about @Soccer Coach

 

[Soccer Coach]

I gotta say, this is kinda awesome!

@Soccer Coach was / is a complete twat, but he (for the most part, still want to know more about this strange dismissal) put together and managed a team that actually didn't earn it's promotion into the 1st division, then went and pulled off enough results to earn promotion, in a tough, tough division.

My hat is off. Congrats, Campo.

@Dude and the others for their candid and deferential comments.
It is quite a remarkable story, and it feels very good that the team reached Premier.

I can shed light in both issues, perhaps more than anyone else. I anticipate that most of you will disagree with the narrative for a variety of reasons. Others will find it interesting and will give some insight of how this came to happen.

If you have not liked or have taken offense on previous posts, then move on. Do not read the paragraphs below.

One factor was luck, providence, or for those who are religious, God's will. There are certainly a series of very fortunate and UNUSUAL events that made this possible. This includes Surrey United withdrawing from Premier (otherwise Campo would have had to stay in Division 2), the unusual tie-breaker (otherwise Norvan Vikings would have got promoted), and the unexpected implosion of CCB and Norvan ( statistically one of them should have got the promotion). In addition, there were situations on the field like the Metropolitan player admitting the ghost goal (otherwise 3 points lost) and few other very lucky bounces here and there that gave valuable points.

This above is not to detract from the effort and work of the players and the process that put them together to play coherently as a team. It is simply to acknowledge that there was a significant element of good luck during the last two years.

Although fortune played a part, this alone can not account for a series of remarkable wins and improvements in performance both at the collective and individual level.

From my experience, it was the coming together of various factors. The former Campobasso had been on a free fall for a three years from the time that I first coached them. They have a couple of seasons with very difficult losses. Some games with very painful scores. Many players and people associated with management left.

I am the first to admit that I have my idiosyncrasies and peculiarities and that I am very demanding of the players. One of the things that I do not compromise is management/player interference with line ups, substitutions, playing times and strategy. When I was given unexpectedly the Division 1 team because the coaches decided to quit due to something like 11 losses in a row; I was able to put an strategy with little interference and the players who were left were listening and following directions because of the fear of relegation. Each game was a do or die experience.

However, when the season started, some of the old guard came back and players were simply not playing the way that I wanted them to play (which I knew would give them results). One aspect was due to mixed messages from the previous coaches another was just their egos as they "knew" better what to do, which is very typical of players in most teams. Thus, after four games, I simple told them. This is it. I will no longer coach you, and we departed ways.

As mentioned, previously, this led to very difficult times for the team and players. They got relegated from Division 1, and went straight to the bottom of Division 2 for one or two seasons.

So the question begs itself, what was the reason for the turn around?

Some people might think is the players other might think that is the coach. In my opinion, the answer is neither in isolation.

It is the result of focused and uninterfered process of training (through small sided games and specific possession drills) and playing with a specific attacking style. This was possible because both of us have changed.

When I was approached to coach them again, almost all the remaining players have changed psychologically. They had grown from their experience. This time they were very receptive and coachable, and I had virtually no interference from any management or anyone else when it came to player selection, recruitment, and allocation to the CAT team. This is a big advantage at this level.

They also became very disciplined tactically. Perhaps the memory of the losses was fresh on their minds, and they worked very hard during practices (which sometimes can be repetitive but there are certain things that you need to do to improve). As the wins started to accumulate, some new players started to move to the team and some of the former players started to come back. A bit of a snowfall effect. Once a team is winning and then people are more prone to join, but also care was put into not allowing into the team players that were not suitable for the style of playing.

I changed too. I observed many local games. During those years I also came across some psychological theories with respect to winning, competing and training. Many principles are counterintuitive, but in my opinion they worked. They helped the players to reach new levels of performance and hindered or distracted the opposition (TTP was great for this).

However, the move to Division 1 was a big test for most players (i.e. for some the challenge was endurance, for others tactical understanding, for other mental competitiveness, for others ball mastery). There is not much difference between the bottom of division 1 and the top of division 2, but you feel it with the top 4 teams of Division 1.

It is a big commitment for me too because I have to watch the opponents sometimes even twice before playing. In my opinion, this the only way that you can get an edge in such a close division.

As for this second departure or severing of ties. It is really straight forward, @Dude. The GN game is very close. It is a must win game. Tough decision, but at the end I have to do what is needed to win the game. A player only two minutes of playing time. Management interferes and wants the player back on the field. I say no and I receive threats of violence and even spitting. In my opinion I did the correct thing of playing for the win.

For me it is quite clear. I do not continue to coach if those two individuals are back until the end of the season when I am gone {as it is clear that objectives are different}. Specially when I am doing it for free because for two years the agreed renumeration never gets given and there is no indication or effort to fulfill the agreement. Not that the money itself manners, but it is the principle.


As much as it has been fun and entertaining the games and the banter on TTP. there is no excuse for threats of violence and assault. If this was a one off incident, then I do not dig my heels, but the tension has been there with those two individuals for quite a few weeks. I can see why people outside the team and some inside put a different spin on it, but my conscious is clear. I do not favour a player or players because a relative is donating money, is a friend, or is part of management. If the objective is to win, then those who can provide the win should be on the field of play.

For the same reasons that the ties were cut five years ago, they are again. No regrets.

Overall, I am happy that the team got to Premier. It is well deserved as the players worked hard and I know that I am very demanding on the field and in practices, and I feel a sense of accomplishment. I wish them luck.

Taking a break momentarily to recharge batteries. You can find me on the tango hall or back on line playing correspondance chess, but you will see me again sooner or later.

 

[dezza]

So many questions @Soccer Coach... but I'll start with just one:

For me it is quite clear. I do not continue to coach if those two individuals are back until the end of the season when I am gone {as it is clear that objectives are different}. Specially when I am doing it for free because for two years the agreed renumeration never gets given and there is no indication or effort to fulfill the agreement. Not that the money itself manners, but it is the principle.


As much as it has been fun and entertaining the games and the banter on TTP. there is no excuse for threats of violence and assault. If this was a one off incident, then I do not dig my heels, but the tension has been there with those two individuals for quite a few weeks. I can see why people outside the team and some inside put a different spin on it, but my conscious is clear. I do not favour a player or players because a relative is donating money, is a friend, or is part of management. If the objective is to win, then those who can provide the win should be on the field of play.

For the same reasons that the ties were cut five years ago, they are again. No regrets.

You claim that you were coaching Campo because you had an agreement to be "renumerated" to do so. You also say that you've had one clear objective, which is to win, and everything you've done is in line with that goal.

However, on social media you posted at the end of last season

"May 27, 2016 ·

Three cups this year!
The ironic thing is that we did it for the fun of the game! But the wins kept coming."

Can you please help reconcile what part of "doing it for the fun of game" includes being remunerated and pissing everyone off?

#Irony #DoYouSeeHowYouAre?

 

[HighLife]

@Dude and the others for their candid and deferential comments.
It is quite a remarkable story, and it feels very good that the team reached Premier.

I can shed light in both issues, perhaps more than anyone else. I anticipate that most of you will disagree with the narrative for a variety of reasons. Others will find it interesting and will give some insight of how this came to happen.

If you have not liked or have taken offense on previous posts, then move on. Do not read the paragraphs below.

One factor was luck, providence, or for those who are religious, God's will. There are certainly a series of very fortunate and UNUSUAL events that made this possible. This includes Surrey United withdrawing from Premier (otherwise Campo would have had to stay in Division 2), the unusual tie-breaker (otherwise Norvan Vikings would have got promoted), and the unexpected implosion of CCB and Norvan ( statistically one of them should have got the promotion). In addition, there were situations on the field like the Metropolitan player admitting the ghost goal (otherwise 3 points lost) and few other very lucky bounces here and there that gave valuable points.

This above is not to detract from the effort and work of the players and the process that put them together to play coherently as a team. It is simply to acknowledge that there was a significant element of good luck during the last two years.

Although fortune played a part, this alone can not account for a series of remarkable wins and improvements in performance both at the collective and individual level.

From my experience, it was the coming together of various factors. The former Campobasso had been on a free fall for a three years from the time that I first coached them. They have a couple of seasons with very difficult losses. Some games with very painful scores. Many players and people associated with management left.

I am the first to admit that I have my idiosyncrasies and peculiarities and that I am very demanding of the players. One of the things that I do not compromise is management/player interference with line ups, substitutions, playing times and strategy. When I was given unexpectedly the Division 1 team because the coaches decided to quit due to something like 11 losses in a row; I was able to put an strategy with little interference and the players who were left were listening and following directions because of the fear of relegation. Each game was a do or die experience.

However, when the season started, some of the old guard came back and players were simply not playing the way that I wanted them to play (which I knew would give them results). One aspect was due to mixed messages from the previous coaches another was just their egos as they "knew" better what to do, which is very typical of players in most teams. Thus, after four games, I simple told them. This is it. I will no longer coach you, and we departed ways.

As mentioned, previously, this led to very difficult times for the team and players. They got relegated from Division 1, and went straight to the bottom of Division 2 for one or two seasons.

So the question begs itself, what was the reason for the turn around?

Some people might think is the players other might think that is the coach. In my opinion, the answer is neither in isolation.

It is the result of focused and uninterfered process of training (through small sided games and specific possession drills) and playing with a specific attacking style. This was possible because both of us have changed.

When I was approached to coach them again, almost all the remaining players have changed psychologically. They had grown from their experience. This time they were very receptive and coachable, and I had virtually no interference from any management or anyone else when it came to player selection, recruitment, and allocation to the CAT team. This is a big advantage at this level.

They also became very disciplined tactically. Perhaps the memory of the losses was fresh on their minds, and they worked very hard during practices (which sometimes can be repetitive but there are certain things that you need to do to improve). As the wins started to accumulate, some new players started to move to the team and some of the former players started to come back. A bit of a snowfall effect. Once a team is winning and then people are more prone to join, but also care was put into not allowing into the team players that were not suitable for the style of playing.

I changed too. I observed many local games. During those years I also came across some psychological theories with respect to winning, competing and training. Many principles are counterintuitive, but in my opinion they worked. They helped the players to reach new levels of performance and hindered or distracted the opposition (TTP was great for this).

However, the move to Division 1 was a big test for most players (i.e. for some the challenge was endurance, for others tactical understanding, for other mental competitiveness, for others ball mastery). There is not much difference between the bottom of division 1 and the top of division 2, but you feel it with the top 4 teams of Division 1.

It is a big commitment for me too because I have to watch the opponents sometimes even twice before playing. In my opinion, this the only way that you can get an edge in such a close division.

As for this second departure or severing of ties. It is really straight forward, @Dude. The GN game is very close. It is a must win game. Tough decision, but at the end I have to do what is needed to win the game. A player only two minutes of playing time. Management interferes and wants the player back on the field. I say no and I receive threats of violence and even spitting. In my opinion I did the correct thing of playing for the win.

For me it is quite clear. I do not continue to coach if those two individuals are back until the end of the season when I am gone {as it is clear that objectives are different}. Specially when I am doing it for free because for two years the agreed renumeration never gets given and there is no indication or effort to fulfill the agreement. Not that the money itself manners, but it is the principle.


As much as it has been fun and entertaining the games and the banter on TTP. there is no excuse for threats of violence and assault. If this was a one off incident, then I do not dig my heels, but the tension has been there with those two individuals for quite a few weeks. I can see why people outside the team and some inside put a different spin on it, but my conscious is clear. I do not favour a player or players because a relative is donating money, is a friend, or is part of management. If the objective is to win, then those who can provide the win should be on the field of play.

For the same reasons that the ties were cut five years ago, they are again. No regrets.

Overall, I am happy that the team got to Premier. It is well deserved as the players worked hard and I know that I am very demanding on the field and in practices, and I feel a sense of accomplishment. I wish them luck.

Taking a break momentarily to recharge batteries. You can find me on the tango hall or back on line playing correspondance chess, but you will see me again sooner or later.

Maybe you can come back and coach one of the Rino's teams.

 

[Soccer Coach]

Maybe you can come back and coach one of the Rino's teams.

Very funny! I missed you guys here. In my opinion both Rino's teams have the potential to be Premier; they just would have to employ a different set of formations and tactics than the ones that they employed.

I did not know that we were "friends" on Facebook.
As for pissing everyone off, yes, most of the time it gives an edge on the field, and this is part of the fun of competing and playing the competitive games. Even in street soccer you tease your opponent. I am convinced that many points were won because the other teams and managers were playing at an emotional level or were forced to compete against each other (i.e. the accusations of collusion is a very powerful incentive).
The other things it that by taking the focal point away from the players and bringing into to you (the coach) or into created controversies, you help the team performance. I can not get into details of this (there are some very wacko and freudian explanations, but the coaches that use this technique usually get results Mourihno been the best at this.

As for the renumeration part, doing a thing for fun does not mean that you will not be compensated for basic costs (i.e. gas, equipment, reading materials, clothing, etc), specially if it is agreed.

Look I see that we will never be friends and I can see that I caused quite a bit of inconvenience to you with taking the cup away from you and the comments. My sincere apologies. I was just doing it to get a edge. I hope that one day we can move on and not take it personal.

You run a good club and have good teams. I really did not mean to reject your club when I decided to join Campobasso instead of Rinos. It was just the way it played itself.

 

[bandcamp]

#DoYouSeeHowYouAre?

There's a movement...we have a hashtag now! Proud emoji

 

[dezza]

Sorry, I meant pissing off your own players. You know with the "win at all costs" attitude where you would insult a player so badly by substituting him in to a game and then taking him off after just 2 minutes. What point were you trying to prove, that you were in control? I guess that backfired on you pretty badly. And it sure sounds like "playing for the love of the game" to me.

Also, to be clear you were never invited to be part of Rino's. You contact us, were invited to one training session, and we were considering letting you have an assistant coaching role, but you found someone desperate enough to give you your own team and your ran with it. Good for you. Also, I generally try to avoid being friends with or spending time with sociopaths.

 

[SmartCoach]

isolation

Check.

Maybe you can come back and coach one of the Rino's teams.

.
We do have a coaching position open in division 1 next season
Please pm if anyone is intrested

 

[Gurps]

Also, I generally try to avoid being friends with or spending time with sociopaths.

 

[Dude]

Popcorn, need popcorn....

 

[Soccer Coach]

Sorry, I meant pissing off your own players. You know with the "win at all costs" attitude where you would insult a player so badly by substituting him in to a game and then taking him off after just 2 minutes. What point were you trying to prove, that you were in control? I guess that backfired on you pretty badly. And it sure sounds like "playing for the love of the game" to me.

Also, to be clear you were never invited to be part of Rino's. You contact us, were invited to one training session, and we were considering letting you have an assistant coaching role, but you found someone desperate enough to give you your own team and your ran with it. Good for you. Also, I generally try to avoid being friends with or spending time with sociopaths.

If I have to do it again, I simply would do it without hesitation. Because the objective was to win and push for promotion at that moment. I genuinely think that if the player in question would have stayed on the field on that night, the game would have been lost. It was simply not his night.

A very tough and difficult decision. "Playing for the love of the game CAN include the "win at all costs" mentality, not that I think that many would agree or see through this paradox.

I answered and replied to you in good faith. You are not returning the courtesy and are insulting. Thus, I will not reply after this.

 

[Dude]

Sure you will, you are always sucked in.

That said, agree 100% with winning and having fun going hand-in-hand. If you have fun in a losing cause, I don't want you on my team.

 

[SmartCoach]

Sure you will, you are always sucked in.

That said, agree 100% with winning and having fun going hand-in-hand. If you have fun in a losing cause, I don't want you on my team.

Losing sucks ask soccer coach
After losing the provincial B cup to Campo
We had a meeting to strategize how we could
Win vs Campo in Div 1
Out of 6 games Rinos teams played them we won 4
One we lost to coaching error
Second one we got out played
There are some excellent players on Campo
But none are premier level

 

[True Lies]

There are some excellent players on Campo
But none are premier level

I would disagree apparently they are all good enough for Premier.. only the coach failed to get promoted.

 

[machel]

I would disagree apparently they are all good enough for Premier.. only the coach failed to get promoted.

Seems like you want to say more about the coaching situation. What's your take??

 

[Soccer Coach]

Oh well. He was the one that refused to do the slip and told me to that was going to punch me if I did not put his son back on the field.
They might want to spin the situation all they want. I simple knew that I was not going to put up with anything of this.

 

[SmartCoach]

Oh well. He was the one that refused to do the slip and told me to that was going to punch me if I did not put his son back on the field.
They might want to spin the situation all they want. I simple knew that I was not going to put up with anything of this.

Believe it or not I am on your side in this

 

[akslop]

Oh well. He was the one that refused to do the slip and told me to that was going to punch me if I did not put his son back on the field.
They might want to spin the situation all they want. I simple knew that I was not going to put up with anything of this.

Are we talking adult VMSL or the 10 year old girls team you coach?

 

[HighLife]

Oh well. He was the one that refused to do the slip and told me to that was going to punch me if I did not put his son back on the field.
They might want to spin the situation all they want. I simple knew that I was not going to put up with anything of this.

Did you contact the police after that threat?