Women's Premier 2009/10

[knaacks]

First off, the Whitecaps said at our meeting before the season started that they did not want to contest for a provincial spot and now they decide to back door it in through the PCSL? WTF !! If they win the provincial final, what is the message we are sending to all the teams in the premier league? Play all year but lets let this team who hasen't played with us all season just waltze in and possibly get to go to a club nationals ! This blows as far as I'm concerned. Why do we have to allow a spot from the PCSL? They are doing nothing to better our league, nor do they abide by the rules as far as only playing youth. Are the senior girls going to drop in to go to nationals , when all of the other players go to college and university in the fall? Do we really need to have this corruption
of what we play all season for? How do the Island teams feel about this? They won't know what hits them to play this group. ...reactions??

 

[Gooner21]

I'd heard for a couple years about the PCSL wanting a berth in the provincial cup rounds....gotta tell you, it never made sense. For example, let's say Coquitlam PCSL won that summer league and earned the PCSL spot....then the provincial draw comes out and they are drawn against....Coquitlam...the MWSL team?? Doesn't make sense. Most of the MWSL coaches didn't want the Caps in the MWSL, unless it was just an exhibition spot to fill a bye with no points on the line....so it's interesting that there is a bye in the sched, they play a few teams here and there to get games in, but now they'll challenge for the provincial cup....interesting. Still don't know why the league didn't let them be the 10th team to even out the schedule and give everyone a couple more good games, even if the points from those games didn't count.
As I used to work for the Whitecaps and sit in regular meetings with the BCSA, I've often got to bite my tongue on things like this as I've heard many off the record and behind closed doors things that both entities want.....but I don't get this one at all.

 

[Regs]

I think it's high time the senior amateur leagues start getting a bit of a backbone when it comes to the Whitecaps organisation - what are the leagues getting in return for allowing this happen?

I dunno, from an outsider point of view, I don't - or haven't - seen any benefits from the 'relationship' for the senior leagues.

What am I missing?

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Absolutely bollocks. There is NO way the PCSL should be able to get a team in the Provincials, just like the men. There are many university players who use the PCSL as a training ground......these teams will never be around when it comes to Provincial Cup time.

As for the Whitecaps Prospects, I voted for them to be in our league initially but that didn't happen. So there is no way they should be allowed to come in and represent the PCSL and avoid all the playdowns which take place. It is time someone from the MWSL stood up to this crap.

BTW, it is a joke that no one knows what the procedure is going to be this year for Provincials. I'm going on the assumption that 8 teams make it, which I was told at the start. It certainly would change my approach to the start of the season if this wasn't the case.

 

[Gooner21]

Some interesting things I just read on the BC rules doc regarding provincial cup below. I can't find anything relating to the number of teams in the draw or any note of which leagues can/will be represented.....


Registration
ii. No player shall be allowed to play for more than one team in any one
Provincial Cup competition under the jurisdiction of this Association

Draw/Seeding
i. All leagues must bring team rosters, field locations, and times for the
first two rounds of the Play Downs to the Cup draw. All draws will be
random, no seeding.

RULE 27 - SENIOR CUP COMPETITION RULES
a) A senior Category “A” amateur team affiliated with the Association shall be eligible to enter any open senior Category A Cup competition.

d) Each league shall report in writing to the Association, which competition(s) the Senior league is designating as being that association's qualifying playdowns for a corresponding category of provincial cup competition.

v) A player who has registered with a senior amateur "summer playing season" team, who then signs with a "winter playing season" team, must obtain a release pending the formation of the "summer playing season" team, on or before the transfer deadline of January 15th of the current season.

w) A senior amateur player who registered with a "summer playing season" team who then signs with a "winter season" team and continues to play for the "winter playing season" team after the transfer/release deadline, will be ineligible to play for a "summer playing season" team that participates in an inter-league competition for the provincial cup.

 

[Gooner21]

Would be interested in FB's take on this discussion as he has been a "bigwig" with both PCSL and MWSL....

 

[Fat Bastard]

Hey Gooner. I'm not a Bigwig. Just have bad hair. I haven't confirmed this with PCSL. But here's my take and some insight on this.

The BCSA constitution says that all leagues shall have option of having berths in the Provincial Cup. This would include PCSL. Whether we like it or not, PCSL has that right, and they began exercising it three years ago. The option is given to League winner. If they decline, they go to runner up. They don't go any further I don't believe, as last year League winners Victoria and runners-up 'Caps declined. We were third spot, and weren't given option.

Obviously, with the different seasons, it causes some logistical issues, particularly with regards to players who may have played for Whitecaps in the summer then went to a different club in the fall.

The way it works is that the PCSL essentially awards the berth to a club, not a team, not a roster. The Whitecaps can basically submit a completely new roster. They have until the draw to submit a roster to the BCSA, as do all teams. However, and I may be mistaken, the PCSL was requiring that they have a roster in hand by January 15. Not sure if this is still the case, but this is done to avoid taking a spot and then pulling out later.

If the Whitecaps have any intention of listing players who are currently with other teams, they would need to have those players transferred by January 15. Here's the issue though. They can't so much as send smoke signals to a signed player without it being considered poaching. And even if they run 'tryouts', if the intention is to sign that player for Provincials, it's tampering. And eventhough the BCSA seems to have their collective nose up the Whitecaps' ass, there's no way they could not find such actions to be poaching.

With that in mind, I would think the Whitecaps have zero intention of using senior players. And that they will use their prospects players to field a team. That unto itself doesn't make a whole lot of practical sense either though. Considering the prospects are largely grade 12 players, should the Whitecaps win Provincials (and that is a monster "if"), they would have trouble fielding a team for Nationals in October, when all of those players are unavailable due to college (which is the whole point of playing for the prospects anyhow).

In the end, I have my doubts that a bunch of kids will have the mental toughness to beat a veteran laden teams like Coquitlam, Surrey, Westside, and now Richmond, (and don't forget Gorge), when it matters most. A 17 year old kid defending a determined and intense player, like Megs or Phebe in a provincial cup game? That kid will need therapy.

From a big picture issue, this is really a case of three distinct issues.

(1) Should the PCSL have a berth in Provincials?
(2) Should the Whitecaps be involved in amateur club soccer?
(3) Who is looking after women's soccer?

One. I used to have mixed feelings on this. Given the overall mismanagement of the MWSL Premier division the last decade, I thought the PCSL was the answer. But as things progressed, I found that the PCSL serves a niche in the soccer community. The PCSL is generally a better run, and more competitive league than the MWSL. Admittedly, quality has dropped since the loss of the US teams, but from top to bottom, the caliber of play is better. And as such, I don't think it should move into areas already claimed by the other leagues. The PCSL is essentially a semi-pro, inter-city, northwest regional league, that should focus on its own trophies. It has a competitive league season, a top quality final four format cup, and for the men a northwest regional championship (BC, WA, OR) - and would be nice to resurrect that on the womens side.

By taking a provincial cup berth, it blurs the line between leagues and the purposes they serve. And while it might sound preposterous, claiming a provincial cup berth actually brings the PCSL standard down a level. They should focus on being the level between the amateur winter leagues and the professional leagues. That is their market.

For item 2, the Whitecaps have no business being involved in amateur club soccer. Amateur club soccer is our soccer. They have done nothing, I mean nothing, to improve amateur club soccer, or foster it's growth, or enhance development. They use it when it suits their purpose and they can gain from it. As Regs says, the amateur leagues, PCSL included, need to stand up to the Whitecaps and demand that they give more than they take. They were given the opportunity to participate in a friendly schedule, and they said they weren't interested in Provincial Cup. Clearly this was a lie, and their designs on Cup play may be the reason they weren't added to balance our schedule. Again, a situation where we - amateur club soccer - were prepared to give, but the Whitecaps declined because they wanted to take that and more and not have to give anything back in return.

In the end, it comes down to the third item. Who is looking out for women's soccer? At all levels, women's soccer is in shambles. Despite what I think is a positive changing of the guard at MWSL HQ, the Premier Division is not at the level it needs to be to deliver a positive soccer experience to premier players and supporters alike on a consistent, week in, week out basis. The PCSL, despite their very best intentions, has lost it's way and has becomes increasingly watered down.

Do we need a new League? I don't know. But what I do think is that we - as the Premier clubs (and I'd include MWSL, PCSL and universities in that) need to recognize the fact that we are the stakeholders and the stewards. We are responsible for the development of premier level women's soccer in this province. The BCSA and the Whitecaps have shown they cannot or will not take a leadership role in premier level amateur women's soccer, and the Leagues, again despite best intentions, haven't been able to deliver due to our own indifference. Have we held the League's accountable? No.

I don't know if this is a call to arms or not, but I think we need to find within ourselves the leadership and resolve to take a stand and prevent the further deterioration and corruption of our little piece of the soccer community.


Note: The views and opinions expressed above are those of the writer and only the writer, they do not reflect in any way the views and opinions of any club or organization the writer may be involved with.

 

[Welcome Wagon]

If the Whitecaps are allowed to "drop in" to the Provincial Cup without having played a single league game this is the biggest joke imaginable. It is bad enough that teams are allowed to use players for the Provincial Cup who have not played a single league game, but at team should have to be in our league to be eligible to participate. Furthermore, a semi-pro team who practices most days of the week and travels to tournaments should not be able to take part in an amateur league....Also, players should be required to play at least 3 league games (not cup games) in order to be eligible to compete in the Provincial Cup. I mean, if you are not eligible to play in the f**king Nationals (should your team make it) because you played in ZERO league games you should not be allowed to play in the Provincial Cup. This way the league actually matters for something. If 99.9% of the people are against this rule with the PCSL how is it that the .1% wins? Total BS

 

[Fat Bastard]

WW... While I agree with what you are saying in principle, you have to remember the Provincial Cup is not an MWSL championship. It's a provincial championship. All Leagues pay the same fees, and as such all Category "A" leagues have the right to compete in Provincial Cup, as per the BCSA Constitution.

The Whitecaps haven't played in a League game, but in order to accomodate the PCSL, either they award the berth on last year's results or they move Provincial Cup to July like they do with the youth to accommodate the interior.

Frankly, the PCSL should give up its provincial spot. And also, the Whitecaps should have the common decency, the community spirit to stay out of amateur soccer. (shite. How about the marketing savvy? Why piss off your potential customers?).

As for having the League matter for something, which again, I agree, then BCSA - with the leagues' urging - must cut Provincial Cup back to 8 teams. What does it say when all but one team makes provincials? That's a joke. That's why league play doesn't matter.

Players should be upset about this, but let your actions speak for you. You don't want the Whitecaps in Provincial Cup, then beat the tar out of them on the pitch. If they want to play women's soccer, then if you get the chance to play them in Provincial Cup, give them a nice warm welcome to women's soccer.

 

[Fat Bastard]

BTW... if anyone loses a player to the Whitecaps before Provincial Cup, you let me know. I will do everything to help you hit them up with a poaching charge. I would enjoy that.

 

[Gooner21]

There won't be any poaching issues. Talking with them, they are committed to a grade 12 team of "youth" players (with a few grade 11's) that have been removed from the youth metro league and feel that competitions like the PCSL and training 4 days a week ensures these players are the best they can be coming out of grade 12 to prep them for scholarships and/or w-league. I agree with the concept of a full time euro style program for the top players, but also agree that if you treat them like pros they shouldn't look to enter amateur leagues. However, having said that, they are women and if the PCSL legitimately gets a provincial berth then they are entitled to earn that spot. If they are the best women's team in provincial cup, despite being teens, all the power to them....of course, it opens a different can of worms when they get to nationals and 80% of their players are away on full scholarships and won't be released! Lots of angles for discussion on this one.
We played them on Saturday with 1 sub (against 7 subs making line changes!) and it was a decent match even though we lost. With all our players at cup time in the spring, I have no doubt we'd compete well with them....and the more experienced teams in our league should handle them well, even though the matches should be great as they are fit, skilled, and work hard for 90 minutes.
Their coach told me "we've beaten every top women's team" so I know they feel they can take on any MWSL team which is evident by their PCSL title and Canada Games gold medal in the summer. Should be interesting...

 

[Gooner21]

Oh, and I also agree with FB about the number of spots in provincials. It's a running joke in the girls youth metro league that you can go 0-14 in the season, end up in 12th spot out of 12 teams, and still make provincials. This gives no urgency or plan to get better from start to finish. I'd fully support the top 4 or 6 MWSL teams earning provincial berths and that's it. Maybe 5 MWSL, 2 Island, 1 pcsl....sounds about right.
NHL - 16 out of 30 make playoffs
MLS - 8 out of 15 make playoffs
EPL - only top 4 make Champion's League

 

[Captain Shamrock]

If the Whitecaps are allowed to "drop in" to the Provincial Cup without having played a single league game this is the biggest joke imaginable. It is bad enough that teams are allowed to use players for the Provincial Cup who have not played a single league game, but at team should have to be in our league to be eligible to participate. Furthermore, a semi-pro team who practices most days of the week and travels to tournaments should not be able to take part in an amateur league....Also, players should be required to play at least 3 league games (not cup games) in order to be eligible to compete in the Provincial Cup. I mean, if you are not eligible to play in the f**king Nationals (should your team make it) because you played in ZERO league games you should not be allowed to play in the Provincial Cup. This way the league actually matters for something. If 99.9% of the people are against this rule with the PCSL how is it that the .1% wins? Total BS

WW, I hear what you are saying. However, what if a player played one league game got hurt and was healthy by Provincial Cup time? Is that player ineligible? It happened to one of our players last year and the player was healthy enough to play in the Provincials but chose not to. It becomes tricky when this starts happening.


FB, excellent post.......though I'm shocked I actually read the whole thing. That is the most I have read in one sitting on TTP EVER. You make excellent points.

 

[Welcome Wagon]

WW, I hear what you are saying. However, what if a player played one league game got hurt and was healthy by Provincial Cup time? Is that player ineligible? It happened to one of our players last year and the player was healthy enough to play in the Provincials but chose not to. It becomes tricky when this starts happening.
QUOTE]

I guess that is a gray area. If the player had signed earlier in the season, played one game and then got injured I would say that player should be allowed to play. Zero games though, that is not ok. As for the PCSL, I still think the whole berth is a joke as they have not "earned" a spot. The teams who played in the league from September to April have legitimately earned a spot, not a team who decides they can drop in if they feel like it.

 

[Gooner21]

Where have FB's predictions gone? How am I going to set up my sports action ticket without any guidance? What, mwsl is not on sports action?

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Who is playing who?


Renegades ......... Richmond ...........

Not going to predict on this game as I have no idea who the Renegades have added......we will have 3 new players in the mix......but unfortunately our goalie has the Swine Flu...... We are working on a replacement.

 

[Fat Bastard]

Pylon Cup tonight. 8pm @ Charles Best.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

????????

FB, are you playing the City Slickers?

 

[Gooner21]

Good one FB....over the captain's head on that one....

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Good one FB....over the captain's head on that one....

Not difficult to do.........

But now I can predict....


Coquitlam 2 Burnaby 1