Canada MNT: Road to 2018

[Dude]

Same.

One of the things I teach my players, "Do the right thing, even if you do it badly." this applies to practices and games, and that statement is mostly directed when players favor their strong foot. As a bribe, I buy ice cream for the girls every time they score with their weaker foot, so long as they are using that foot as a matter of "Doing the right thing". I teach them that it's like being a gunslinger, and a gun slinger has two guns. Why only use one gun?

OK, bad analogy, maybe I need to adjust my analogies for the girls going forward...

Point being, I seethe every time I see my players go out of their way to use their strong foot, instead of doing the right thing and using the foot that make sense.

Simple enough, right?

So yes, why the fcuk is Larin so bad on his weak foot? Why wouldn't he have a high sense of priority to develop it? Is it because he was so much better coming up, even as a one footed player, that it didn't matter? THAT speaks volumes, both about our system, and the American NCAA system.

Regs, I think you summed it up.

 

[Dude]

He's the Canadian, Darren Mattocks

Sadly, I think Mattocks is better.

 

[Dude]

Maybe someone needs to bribe Larin with ice cream if he uses his left. By his pouting on the pitch, I have a feeling he will resonate with that, and start using his left.

 

[Soccer Coach]

All game 2 made me feel was we are so far off the level it's ridiculous. For all the excitement about the current squad It just makes you realize how much work still needs to be done. Our movement off the ball is atrocious and are quality on it is just as poor. But then how often does a Canadian player look up and have the ever popular passing triangle available. We are lucky to have one passing option and the entire Mexican squad is reading it and already making runs for the turnover. Disheartening.

I do echo very much your post and sentiment. It is very disheartening and sad.
The question is what we (you and me and the rest here) can do about it?

A few comments to put in perspective:

1) Most of the serious Mexican press and commentators were very critical of the performance of the Mexican National Team in the Azteca. They considered it a poor performance. They were a bit more of the performance in Vancouver.

I would tend to agree with them. Mexico made many tactical and strategical errors in the Azteca, some obvious, others not, the goals came from a penalty and brilliant individual technical play.

In summary, Mexicans fans are happy, but most of press are concerned with Osorio and the functioning of the team.

2) There is compliments for the work of Benito. They see the dignity of play of the Canadian players, but also see the technical limitations of the Canadian players. This seems harsh, but I will quote: "Canadian players are innocent and simply showed that THEY DO NOT KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE GAME". One particular commentator stated: " I do not know how the people that are in charge of Canadian soccer development can go to bed with a clear conscience."

I will put my two cents, and will be specific. I hope that people understand that this is with the best intentions and made to reflect people. I do it because I genuinely care about soccer here and I hope that it turns for the best.

Locally in Vancouver, the development of soccer players really falls on the square of a few hundred people, and the ones that have the most influence for future elite player are no more than a few dozen. They are well intended, BUT THEY DO NOT HAVE AN INCENTIVE to develop, nurture, or select future top soccer players (by Concacaf standards).

I will be explicit to make a point. Lets say @trece verde (VAFC Board), @Colin Elmes (TSS Academy, Gregory Young (VUFC), Lee Treegoning (Mountain Technical Director even Bart Choufour (Whitecaps Youth Academy Director). They are well intentioned people and very knowledgeable, and passionate about the game. However, their positions, jobs and salaries do not depend on developing top competitive players.

We can try to let them know that they should change things to produce different players. That they look at the results, but they have no incentive to change or see or accept this reality. They are doing a good job in developing and producing other type of players.

If their jobs or positions would be on line and incomes contingent of producing top quality players, then they would have no option to do it. This is the main difference with the Mexican system and other systems in the area. If you do not select, produce players within a period of time, somebody else takes your job. As simple as that. Their systems are very competitive and cut throat for everyone (coaches, players, trainers, etc).

Coaches are forced to find the players and techniques that will give tangible results nor what they MIGHT think works well or what they need to grow their clubs. Again to be specific, @trece verde main concern is to make parents and children happy (nothing bad with this). Colin Elmes is concerned with bringing customers to his academy. Gregory Young with growing the base and political influence of his club, the Whitecaps with PR campaing for the Whitecaps and to find MLS requirements. If somebody would come to them, and say you have X number of years to produce X players or your income or you are out, your income will be have a direct link to placing players in Europe or a league (i.e. through commissions, bribes or whatever mechannism). then they would have a clear incentive to do the things that would create Canadian competitive players.

Hence, this is why I think that having semi-professional or professional leagues is a necessary step. It will create direct competition. If you do not produce players you are out of your job. We do not need to waste time trying to convince people that they are not doing things in a optimal way (to produce good players). They are doing things right for other objectives.

I picked one representative in each sector to make a clear point. I know Trece, and he does well for his task, and I admire what he does.



If you know people in the Canadian soccer development system, try to make the reflect on what they are doing.Ask them to see the Mexico-Canada games and encourage them to reflect. What is my role in this disaster?

 

[Dude]

Disaster? A bit early and a bit harsh. And more than a little over the top.

Again, let's see how things go in Honduras, then with El Salvador coming home here. If we get humped 8-1 again, sure, disaster. Making the HEX is the goal, not bettering Mexico.

Agree on the need for a domestic professional league, but when I ask myself what is my role in this disaster? Sorry, besides not trying to take the CSA by storm and forcing a square peg through a round role, I fail to see what my role is.

 

[Mr Base]

Soccer coach just to let you know about Colin Elms,they can say what they want but to let you know if Colin was Running a Canadian program or if I was running Canadian program I would have head NASL teams to run Canadian program. Tony and Victor and others have their ways. Program runs like Union office there is no way forward. They do not develop kids they get them at U 15 hoping they will turn out. It does not work and it will not work with all the hard work they do. See I say one NASL team in BC one NASL team in mid west two teams east side of Canada and we would have 600 players to select from. Test the speed and strength along the way. One club English coaches one club Latin coaches one club Europian coaches and one club Canadian coaches. Start with U12 and go up in ages . Go to to Tournaments in US with youth to test and develop. Nothing but this will work.

 

[Soccer Coach]

Disaster? A bit early and a bit harsh. And more than a little over the top.

Again, let's see how things go in Honduras, then with El Salvador coming home here. If we get humped 8-1 again, sure, disaster. Making the HEX is the goal, not bettering Mexico.

Agree on the need for a domestic professional league, but when I ask myself what is my role in this disaster? Sorry, besides not trying to take the CSA by storm and forcing a square peg through a round role, I fail to see what my role is.

 

[Mr Base]

Second part Soccer Coach. Club soccer across the country is divided in to splinter groups. No one has enough talent to develop. Parents will not drive 120 miles to practice or development centre. They are just happy for kids to play. HPL is six grand a year most parents can not pay for it. Kids that go in to it are not the best talent, they are just kids with rich patents. Seventy percent are not athletic enough to play high level. Net result is what you see against Mexico for most a joke. Caps run kids in to ground by the time of age of18 six practices a week. No kid can make the big club. Why ask your self. At national level guys can not make six passes. It does not matter who the head coach is. People are getting paid along the way no one wants changes.
I once said to Victor I would do it for free to prove that we have talent here but I must have free hands to select. With that office that will never happen so I watch and laugh at net result. Forty years later same old thing. When things get to you role the dube and crack the beer fruck the rest. And for most watch out for Islam idiots they want to kill us all.

 

[Soccer Coach]

Second part Soccer Coach. Club soccer across the country is divided in to splinter groups. No one has enough talent to develop. Parents will not drive 120 miles to practice or development centre. They are just happy for kids to play. HPL is six grand a year most parents can not pay for it. Kids that go in to it are not the best talent, they are just kids with rich patents. Seventy percent are not athletic enough to play high level. Net result is what you see against Mexico for most a joke. Caps run kids in to ground by the time of age of18 six practices a week. No kid can make the big club. Why ask your self. At national level guys can not make six passes. It does not matter who the head coach is. People are getting paid along the way no one wants changes.
I once said to Victor I would do it for free to prove that we have talent here but I must have free hands to select. With that office that will never happen so I watch and laugh at net result. Forty years later same old thing. When things get toyou role the dube and crack the beer fruck the rest.

I wish somebody would listen to you...

 

[Dude]

View attachment 13608

You really fcuking rate yourself as the be-all-end-all of soccer coaches in Vancouver, don’t you, you smug fcuk?

All I do is put in significant hours every week into coaching 13 year old house players. 3-4 times a week on the field with them. I don’t get paid (obviously), but I’m passionate about what I do, don’t mind saying I’m good at it, and happy to say that year-over-year I return pretty much every player. Last year promoted 6 to the next level up, and lost one who was focusing in on Rep level softball and time wouldn’t allow for soccer. This year I’ll promote another couple, and will lose one to another club that is actually closer to her home (Delta, we play out of Cloverdale Athletic), where she’s also involved in a rep volleyball program. I have two other girls that come out from Delta to play with us. At a house level. Because they enjoy the game.

I have no aspirations to be a coach any higher unless my daughter moves up, and that’s only because I typically don’t have confidence in the coaches above me that they’ll do a good job (thankfully, in this case, if she moves up she’ll get my former assistant coach, who is quite good).

Your cute little statement “Father forgive Them for They know not what They do” is as smug as it gets, and it typifies the attitude many of YOU at the highest levels of coaching have for those of us that do the job that none of you want to do.

You see, you get the kids who have drive, are athletic, have good technical skills, and good tactical awareness. I get some girls who are there because the doctor said they were overweight, and needed a cardiovascular sport, so try soccer. Or, kids who’s mom thought they spent too much time on the computer, and figured a dose of soccer would fix them, but they couldn’t run 20 yards without getting winded. Or, the girl who’s European dad is a soccer fanatic, and wants his daughter to love it as much as he does, but obviously doesn’t (she does now). I have one girl who was originally put in soccer because her mom felt bad that all her brothers got to play, but she was forgotten by her dad (she’s returned 6 years now, and not once has tried out for a higher level, despite my pushing her to, despite the fact I know she’d make it).

Smug fcuks like you think coaching a higher level is hard…fcuk right off, how is coaching talented players hard? How is coaching a player who is driven and excited to be there, hard? Honestly, you really need to spend some time masturbating in front of a mirror for a bit, get it out of your system before you post shite like that here.

Back to the topic at hand…agree on the domestic league, but seriously, guys, if we think we are going to uncover and develop the best talent by having a system that requires parents to fork out a small fortune to have their kids at the top level, we are fooling ourselves. Like base, I know we have talent, but we are driving the talent away from HPL, not to it. It’s stupid, and backwards. Yeah, 6x per week? Seriously, it only works in hockey because of the massive numbers we have, and the small numbers the rest of the world has. It’s the reverse scenario for football.

 

[Regs]

@Soccer Coach I think you were just called a cnut.

 

[Soccer Coach]

@Soccer Coach I think you were just called a cnut.

It is fine, Regs, it is fine. The seed is planted. I will reply later. It is hard to accept the reality that we are miles away than the rest in the area.

 

[Dude]

This is where you don't get it....

Nobody is under the illusion that Canada is up to par with Mexico. The realistic expectation for these two games was that Canada would take home 0 points in two games. If you expected more, you are delusional. Sure, we all WANTED more, but I don't think anyone EXPECTED more.

But it's people like you that freak out about the system after an expected result to a world power that doesn't help matters.

Climbing the rankings doesn't happen overnight. It will take another generation ONCE we have a true, Canada wide, professional league. Until then, the environment doesn't exist to get young Canadian Professionals the proper level of competition to grow themselves, and the National game. Yes, there are many other roadblocks, but that is the main one, as have been said by many in the know with intelligence on the matter.

Your point is far from clear, because you are calling out:

1. A not-for-profit club executive. If Trece is fired from that "job", he'll likely thank his lucky stars. Being on a BOD is truly thankless, mostly because they have to deal with nutters like you.
2. A private business person that is doing just fine, and has neither the motivation to change his structure, the need, or frankly, the outside influence. Why would Colin Elmes change his structure? He's running a business, I assume it is reasonably profitable and he's (I assume) happy.

Those guys aren't really in the food chain. Trece makes his money at his job, and by selling his body. Colin is likely just peachy the way his business is structured.

I suppose that the clubs could incentivise their club directors for results, but that really won't garner dramatic change as you think it would.

But, regardless, you seem to think you are making an earth shattering point in saying we need a professional league. Like, really? No shite, Sherlock.

 

[Gurps]

Canada had a rough couple of games vs a very strong Mexico. Like Dude said, no one expected any points.


Let's judge the team when this round is over. If they pull it off and make it to the Hex, that is progress. If they don't, flame away.

 

[oldtimer]

Excellent posts @Dude.....hit that self-like button for yourself....you deserve it!

 

[Mr Base]

Dude it's good that you doing what you are doing,helping kids in house or at higher level takes just the same. At higher level skill and athletic ability is better but in my opinion there is a space for all. If our head guys ever put in three four teams in NASL we will have all the men or ladies we need to do way better.
Al Salvador is a small country it develops more top end players than we do. Their men play in Domestic League we can do the same.
Canada is a huge country it need four training centres and four NASL clubs with youth feeder system. Kids if they want can climb to the top.
This way we can get coaches from all the back grounds and see who does the best job in developing. I see no reason for us to develop American players and than get the kick in the back part from them.
Mexico is a World soccer country, it has high pride and good coaches to back it up. We lack in development and it shows on the pitch. There is no need to get mad. Input from people is wealth.
If we spend more time helping each other how to be better coaches our Canadian kids will go forward, Bashing Colin or any other guy just shows gaps in us.
Most big countries have cartel money in behind, in Canada kids pay for all of it. This is why we can not put in NASL teams guys running Canadian program up top get paid for doing very little. In my opinion every four years change it if we do not move up the ladder till we do. Guys are getting three four hundred thousand dollars a year to do the job. It must be done better than what we have now.
It must be done with smile at half of the coast. Old boys club Dude knows how to BS and play golf. Do not feel sorry for them.

 

[LION]

Dude some major points. Awesome stuff.
I don't think soccer coach coaches at a high level anyways. And seriously what is high level locally. UBC and sfu perhaps? College soccer?

I feel at club level it's so different and getting commitment alone is tough. Guys don't have mommies driving them anymore or paying their club fee. The egos are hard to manage to be honest. You are not coaching all that much but maybe more player management at that point in the local higher divisions.

Yah motivating a 12 year old girl would be much harder. But this new crop of kids coming through have many of their own issues and don't respect the game, their competition or the vets all that much.
So coaching a 20 year old stud gets quite difficult as they want to just show and take a spot off a guy who has been there for half a decade and playing well.

Anyways. Until we have the culture we are just going to get "stuck in" and kick people hard for years to come. I know lots of the masters teams are really good at that.

I could go off on that alone. The mentality of these old guys who most I'm sure coach their kids. Blue collar bush leaguers that have the "kick them" mentality. And then wonder why we suck at the higher levels.
Having a pint and feeling manly cause they stuck a guy. Honestly. We have too many of that and not enough true footballers that want the culture to grow.
Get rid of the tough guy act, take off your Affliction shirt and turn off nfl Sunday. Let's start there. Finishing a check is not part of this sport. Teach skill and not blue collar shite that any donkey with two legs can do.

I can point at the Canadian mentality as an issue. The hockey, football tough guy thing. It just doesn't transfer well for soccer. I know the new school is coming up with skill now, but still go home to watch the hockey and have a dad with old school mentality sometimes. Applauding MMA on a Saturday night. It's engrained in so many.

We need the culture around the game to change. Money invested in the game to make this Canadian pro league and the right leaders to do it.
What clubs truly have club culture? Maybe a few?

We barely have new refs wanting to get in to it. I haven't seen a new good young ish ref in ages. @knvb aside who probably saw a hole there and knew he could help. Might be next for me too.

#stillhobblingfromlastthursdayasguystakelibertiesfrombehind. #soundslikeagoodnightondavie
#imondavieasiwritethis

I hope I get to see our country climb the scales in my lifetime and I hope to somehow help the local game one day.
Some clubs are doing it right but more need to get it going.

 

[LION]

And so its not mid read. I don't think North Delta SC is doing it right. Not saying I or the club in with is at all.
More like Surrey U and Metroford.
Top to bottom. Kids actually want to get called up and play for the club. Someone told me playing for the wolves was a goal for some guys graduating from youth. At least there is a goal there. And a "soccer for life" culture.

Too many rec minded parents are in soccer and on boards with clubs. We almost get the left overs from hockey sometimes and it shows on how we view the sport etc.
"It's Canadian soccer, it's just for fun"

So what's the end goal of the academy? Make money or truly develop players and help them get scholarships? Are you a Rec club or do you want to truly develop kids and give them a second home on the pitch for the rest of their lives?

There are parents, moms and dads alike that sit on these executive boards and never played the game and just wants little Johnny to have fun. Great. To me that's the easy part. But shouldn't every club Put efforts and pride in to developing young, respectful athletes that end up getting scholarships on it?

But the current system is so shady and all over and kids having to pay $6k is nuts.

Again. Zero money in the game. And I honestly don't know if I can see that ever changing.

N-E-Ways.

 

[djones]

Until we have the culture we...

This!!! Well said @LION

It's so easy to pass blame (as I have in the past too) but it really comes down to culture. Live in a region that actually has a thriving one to really understand.

It's not that we don't have one, it's just that we don't have a very sophisticated one. Comparing it to Mexico or any other 1st world footballing nation is laughable.

 

[dezza]

Pretty sure our soccer culture revolves around the latest boots released by Nike/Adidas.