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De guzman blasts c.s.a for canada's qualification failure
- Thread starter Polska
- Start date
BTW...the answer to the question, "Where is Tony?"
Mini Dude and Dudette participated in his latest coaching video for mini players. He's fully involved in that (World of Soccer)...
Youth Soccer Coaching Curriculum - Youth Soccer Curriculum - Byte Size Coaching by Tony Waiters
Tony Waiters // Official Web Site of the World of Soccer - Home / News
...as well as a consultant coach on call for, I believe, the NCAA and US Development program. On top of that, he's involved w/ Geoff McCormick, formerly the director of the youth academy at Surrey United, in establishing a new youth soccer academy in Surrey. He’s a busy man, and tons of energy.
Our daughter will be going into this full time, as the quality of teaching Geoff provides is far superior to everything else out there.
That's what I was after...a little prespective. Thanks Jonesey.
Mini Dude and Dudette participated in his latest coaching video for mini players. He's fully involved in that (World of Soccer)...
Youth Soccer Coaching Curriculum - Youth Soccer Curriculum - Byte Size Coaching by Tony Waiters
Tony Waiters // Official Web Site of the World of Soccer - Home / News
...as well as a consultant coach on call for, I believe, the NCAA and US Development program. On top of that, he's involved w/ Geoff McCormick, formerly the director of the youth academy at Surrey United, in establishing a new youth soccer academy in Surrey. He’s a busy man, and tons of energy.
Our daughter will be going into this full time, as the quality of teaching Geoff provides is far superior to everything else out there.
That's what I was after...a little prespective. Thanks Jonesey.
- Thread starter
- #43
My point was over looked. The under 20's shite the bed on home field. No goals if i recall. Yet dale gets a promotion to coach the big club.. Really thats all we got? The CSA is the only organization that Reward poor perFormance. Who else was in running for this job at the time? Dale is a good man from what i remember with the JR wolves. Although i do remember some communication problems.Then we can talk about his personal life and how that affects him as a coach of canada's national team. But i will leave that alone as it is none of my business.. just some food for thought.
That's clearly a forgotten point, too...and quite fair.
I'll put it in a different scenario for you though...
Often times in the business world, there are companies that are sitting right on the cusp of success...to moving to the next level. How do you make the jump? Well, in most companies there are certain deficiencies that need to be corrected, investments made, and risks to be taken.
Usually, in order to make the next step, the company will do two things:
~First, direct the focus towards the #1 product, service, target market, and / or combination. You identify where the largest potential for success is, and you center your goals around the success of that focus.
~Second, place a leader at the helm that will motivate and push his staff, as well as identify shortcomings within the system, and put systems in place to ensure long term success.
In this case, the MNT is the most important division of this organization, and the leader of this division needs to be the best they can afford.
This is a real simplistic and Cole’s notes version, but often times business and sports are closely compared because both are highly competitive...so often times the comparison is relevant.
Regs...I clearly remember that you, along with several of us, were as optimistic as ever about the MNT's chances of success following the Gold Cup. Optimism was as high as I can remember since we actually made it to the WC.
Now, the CSA as an organization clearly had its deficiencies. We hear and read about some of the things they are trying to implement to overcome these deficiencies. It's a massive undertaking. That being said, the #1 goal every 4 years HAS to be to qualify for the WC.
Jonesey...all you arguments are damning...I just can't disagree. I know it's not Dales fault. That being said, he wasn't a difference maker either.
You can't tell me we don't have the pure talent to compete in CONCACAF. We do. I agree it would take those players playing their best to actually qualify, but that is a given. So, when you have a fractured system that is slowly but surely trying to repair itself, yet this goal of qualifying is staring you in the face, what should an organization do? A leader that is qualified for the task at hand has to be put in place. In our case, I will boldly
declare that the CSA FUBARed this hiring.
Mitchell...God love him for what he's done for our sport in this country, the player he was, and the obvious positive impact he's had on the youth. He's a bright light in the dark tunnel that is Canadian Soccer. But, he wasn't the right guy in the first place. He was not qualified, and he did not have the credentials. These players need to respect the guy at the helm. They need to know that the guy has been there, done that…either as a player, or better, as a coach.
So, back to my point…the CSA may be making strides in fixing the many problems of a fractured system. That being said, they have erred badly w/ this hiring. Dale should have been left in place where he was, and brought in as an assistant to learn under more experienced guidance. Would the players have thrown that coach under the bus? Who the fcuk knows….and they deserve as much if not more blame than Dale. But, as they say, you can’t just fire the talent, or remove the working pieces available on the board. You can change the leadership.
I'll put it in a different scenario for you though...
Often times in the business world, there are companies that are sitting right on the cusp of success...to moving to the next level. How do you make the jump? Well, in most companies there are certain deficiencies that need to be corrected, investments made, and risks to be taken.
Usually, in order to make the next step, the company will do two things:
~First, direct the focus towards the #1 product, service, target market, and / or combination. You identify where the largest potential for success is, and you center your goals around the success of that focus.
~Second, place a leader at the helm that will motivate and push his staff, as well as identify shortcomings within the system, and put systems in place to ensure long term success.
In this case, the MNT is the most important division of this organization, and the leader of this division needs to be the best they can afford.
This is a real simplistic and Cole’s notes version, but often times business and sports are closely compared because both are highly competitive...so often times the comparison is relevant.
Regs...I clearly remember that you, along with several of us, were as optimistic as ever about the MNT's chances of success following the Gold Cup. Optimism was as high as I can remember since we actually made it to the WC.
Now, the CSA as an organization clearly had its deficiencies. We hear and read about some of the things they are trying to implement to overcome these deficiencies. It's a massive undertaking. That being said, the #1 goal every 4 years HAS to be to qualify for the WC.
Jonesey...all you arguments are damning...I just can't disagree. I know it's not Dales fault. That being said, he wasn't a difference maker either.
You can't tell me we don't have the pure talent to compete in CONCACAF. We do. I agree it would take those players playing their best to actually qualify, but that is a given. So, when you have a fractured system that is slowly but surely trying to repair itself, yet this goal of qualifying is staring you in the face, what should an organization do? A leader that is qualified for the task at hand has to be put in place. In our case, I will boldly
declare that the CSA FUBARed this hiring. Mitchell...God love him for what he's done for our sport in this country, the player he was, and the obvious positive impact he's had on the youth. He's a bright light in the dark tunnel that is Canadian Soccer. But, he wasn't the right guy in the first place. He was not qualified, and he did not have the credentials. These players need to respect the guy at the helm. They need to know that the guy has been there, done that…either as a player, or better, as a coach.
So, back to my point…the CSA may be making strides in fixing the many problems of a fractured system. That being said, they have erred badly w/ this hiring. Dale should have been left in place where he was, and brought in as an assistant to learn under more experienced guidance. Would the players have thrown that coach under the bus? Who the fcuk knows….and they deserve as much if not more blame than Dale. But, as they say, you can’t just fire the talent, or remove the working pieces available on the board. You can change the leadership.
That's clearly a forgotten point, too...and quite fair.
I'll put it in a different scenario for you though...
Often times in the business world, there are companies that are sitting right on the cusp of success...to moving to the next level. How do you make the jump? Well, in most companies there are certain deficiencies that need to be corrected, investments made, and risks to be taken.
Usually, in order to make the next step, the company will do two things:
~First, direct the focus towards the #1 product, service, target market, and / or combination. You identify where the largest potential for success is, and you center your goals around the success of that focus.
~Second, place a leader at the helm that will motivate and push his staff, as well as identify shortcomings within the system, and put systems in place to ensure long term success.
In this case, the MNT is the most important division of this organization, and the leader of this division needs to be the best they can afford.
This is a real simplistic and Cole’s notes version, but often times business and sports are closely compared because both are highly competitive...so often times the comparison is relevant.
Regs...I clearly remember that you, along with several of us, were as optimistic as ever about the MNT's chances of success following the Gold Cup. Optimism was as high as I can remember since we actually made it to the WC.
Now, the CSA as an organization clearly had its deficiencies. We hear and read about some of the things they are trying to implement to overcome these deficiencies. It's a massive undertaking. That being said, the #1 goal every 4 years HAS to be to qualify for the WC.
Jonesey...all you arguments are damning...I just can't disagree. I know it's not Dales fault. That being said, he wasn't a difference maker either.
You can't tell me we don't have the pure talent to compete in CONCACAF. We do. I agree it would take those players playing their best to actually qualify, but that is a given. So, when you have a fractured system that is slowly but surely trying to repair itself, yet this goal of qualifying is staring you in the face, what should an organization do? A leader that is qualified for the task at hand has to be put in place. In our case, I will boldly
Mitchell...God love him for what he's done for our sport in this country, the player he was, and the obvious positive impact he's had on the youth. He's a bright light in the dark tunnel that is Canadian Soccer. But, he wasn't the right guy in the first place. He was not qualified, and he did not have the credentials. These players need to respect the guy at the helm. They need to know that the guy has been there, done that…either as a player, or better, as a coach.
So, back to my point…the CSA may be making strides in fixing the many problems of a fractured system. That being said, they have erred badly w/ this hiring. Dale should have been left in place where he was, and brought in as an assistant to learn under more experienced guidance. Would the players have thrown that coach under the bus? Who the fcuk knows….and they deserve as much if not more blame than Dale. But, as they say, you can’t just fire the talent, or remove the working pieces available on the board. You can change the leadership.
Dude: well done....this team needs a shake up and unfortunately it has to be the coach. let's move on.........
- Admin
- #47
Before moving on, I need to clarify one thing here that drives me nuts:
Mitchell was not hired AFTER he "failed" at the U20s. He was promoted to the position before the tourney began. Splitting hairs? Maybe, but not when people use the mis-information to bolster their points/position.
Yes I was stoked at the start of the campaign - I don't think anyone saw the sub-performances coming from so many.
Mitchell was not hired AFTER he "failed" at the U20s. He was promoted to the position before the tourney began. Splitting hairs? Maybe, but not when people use the mis-information to bolster their points/position.
And there you have the main reason that Canada failed this go around. The players did not play their best, or rather, key players did not play their best.
Yes I was stoked at the start of the campaign - I don't think anyone saw the sub-performances coming from so many.
That in itself is the most frustrating thing. The players seemed quite capable, ability wise. Dispite all the development problems, etc., it really seemed like this group had the capability to compete. They weren't even competitive.
IN other sports Canadians compete in, we're known for our competitiveness, above all else. Certainly w/ hockey (there is an inbred pride there), but also in other arenas. This, for me, is the embarrassing part...our guys got out played seemingly based on a lack of "want", as compared to their competition.
IN other sports Canadians compete in, we're known for our competitiveness, above all else. Certainly w/ hockey (there is an inbred pride there), but also in other arenas. This, for me, is the embarrassing part...our guys got out played seemingly based on a lack of "want", as compared to their competition.
Dial 9-1-1
Active Member
They needed a good start to the tournament to gain momentum and confidence--similar to any championship tourney, really.
Instead, inability to finish their chances and then sub-par goalkeeping at the other end blew their spirit. It was all downhill from there.
Finger-pointing and voiced displeasure was inevitable after that showing.
Instead, inability to finish their chances and then sub-par goalkeeping at the other end blew their spirit. It was all downhill from there.
Finger-pointing and voiced displeasure was inevitable after that showing.
You can look at it two ways.
Some might look at qualifying for this World Cup as a way to confirming that we are going in the right direction (or help push us in that way).
Others, like myself, look at not qualifying as proof that there are real fundamental problems with our developmental system and that exposing those deficiencies is the only way that we will improve.
I feel the same way as getting more MLS franchise in Canada. It would be great for Vancouver/Montreal/Ottawa and great for fans but it won't solve the developmental problem of players and coaches because there's too big of a gap for Canadian players/coaches to jump and not enough opportunities to make a difference in the lack of quality we have in the Canadian National team.
We won't be able to compete with other mid size CONCACAF nations, let alone Mexico and the US, because they have their own league with at least 10 teams developing talent from pro to youth to our 2 or 3. It will never be enough! The MLS will make sure of that and so will those franchises.
Some might look at qualifying for this World Cup as a way to confirming that we are going in the right direction (or help push us in that way).
Others, like myself, look at not qualifying as proof that there are real fundamental problems with our developmental system and that exposing those deficiencies is the only way that we will improve.
I feel the same way as getting more MLS franchise in Canada. It would be great for Vancouver/Montreal/Ottawa and great for fans but it won't solve the developmental problem of players and coaches because there's too big of a gap for Canadian players/coaches to jump and not enough opportunities to make a difference in the lack of quality we have in the Canadian National team.
We won't be able to compete with other mid size CONCACAF nations, let alone Mexico and the US, because they have their own league with at least 10 teams developing talent from pro to youth to our 2 or 3. It will never be enough! The MLS will make sure of that and so will those franchises.
Your model of a Junor style system is great, but it too lacks a major component: the next stone.
You're right about MLS not being big enough here. Likely only 2 teams. But, they will represent two more teams for young players to aspire to.
Even on a micro scale to the Mexican system, it is better than nothing. MLS, USL, "Junior"...what else can be done? Back to Utah's comment about placement...perhaps the CSA needs to make it more of their business to foster overseas relationships and actively promote / support players. Help them get recognized, invited, then suplement them w/ a living wage and expenses while they are on trial.
Honestly, asside from a CSL model- bound to fail- what else is there? Move the full-time MNT program to Europe? Maybe that needs to be done. Portugal is cheap...
You're right about MLS not being big enough here. Likely only 2 teams. But, they will represent two more teams for young players to aspire to.
Even on a micro scale to the Mexican system, it is better than nothing. MLS, USL, "Junior"...what else can be done? Back to Utah's comment about placement...perhaps the CSA needs to make it more of their business to foster overseas relationships and actively promote / support players. Help them get recognized, invited, then suplement them w/ a living wage and expenses while they are on trial.
Honestly, asside from a CSL model- bound to fail- what else is there? Move the full-time MNT program to Europe? Maybe that needs to be done. Portugal is cheap...
I don't post very often, but here is my moan for the day.
The Canadian Soccer Association have a lot to answer for in their lack of vision over the years and for the state of soccer in our Country at this time.
They are run by amatuers, who 5 years earlier were handing out oranges at half time.
They get on commitees and before they know it, they are Directors at the CSA level.
We have no League in Canada and until we get one, there will not be any player development for our National Teams, as the Leagues in all of the Provinces are Pub Leagues at best, let us not kid ourselves, they are not good enough to send players to compete in world competitions.
The CSA deserves all of the critisism it gets, you won't hear me defending them, however, what about the Prvinces?
Do they not have some responsibility?
When the 86ers were winning regularly and developing players for the National Team, they did it on a "limited budget". Averageing 3000-4000 per game at a small stadium (Swangard).
If there was any leadership in our own Province, they would look to developing a "semi-pro league" of their own.
There are numerous Towns with stadiums that hold 2000-3000 people.
Can we not begin to form a League to be played with the likes of: Burnaby, Richmond N.Vanc. Vanc. Prince George, Kelowna, etc.
There would need to be some guidence from "leaders in the BCSA" to control budgets, and a basic standard for training and "day of game operation".
It might take a few years, but eventually, the standard would improve, with a more "professional approach".
Players could develop and progress to USL Teams and even on to MLS.
You cannot look at the top of the pyramid to blame, we do not have the base to draw from.
As far as this being the best team ever to try to qualify, who are they trying to kid?
The best team, is the team that qualified in 1986 and that was because we had a good number of players playing in a professional league, training daily with top players.
These, so called great players, have only whined and moaned about the Coach after they have lost.
Look in the mirror and be accountable.
Slagging Dale Mitchell in the media is an absolute joke.Any player who has a problem with the Coach should bring it up at the team meetings. If they are not satisfied with the outcome, they can go to the CSA representative to bring the concerns to the board.
It should all be "kept in house".
The CSA should sack any player for "mouthing off" in the media.There are ways to get things done without bringing the game into disrepute.
Who the hell is Jim Brennan? Want's to come into camp when it suits him, but will complain when he is not selected.Who is he playing for? Canada or himself?
Dwayne surprises me with his comments, I thought that he had a bit more class about him.
Prima-Donna's.
Anyway that's my moan for the day.
My finger is killing me.
The Canadian Soccer Association have a lot to answer for in their lack of vision over the years and for the state of soccer in our Country at this time.
They are run by amatuers, who 5 years earlier were handing out oranges at half time.
They get on commitees and before they know it, they are Directors at the CSA level.
We have no League in Canada and until we get one, there will not be any player development for our National Teams, as the Leagues in all of the Provinces are Pub Leagues at best, let us not kid ourselves, they are not good enough to send players to compete in world competitions.
The CSA deserves all of the critisism it gets, you won't hear me defending them, however, what about the Prvinces?
Do they not have some responsibility?
When the 86ers were winning regularly and developing players for the National Team, they did it on a "limited budget". Averageing 3000-4000 per game at a small stadium (Swangard).
If there was any leadership in our own Province, they would look to developing a "semi-pro league" of their own.
There are numerous Towns with stadiums that hold 2000-3000 people.
Can we not begin to form a League to be played with the likes of: Burnaby, Richmond N.Vanc. Vanc. Prince George, Kelowna, etc.
There would need to be some guidence from "leaders in the BCSA" to control budgets, and a basic standard for training and "day of game operation".
It might take a few years, but eventually, the standard would improve, with a more "professional approach".
Players could develop and progress to USL Teams and even on to MLS.
You cannot look at the top of the pyramid to blame, we do not have the base to draw from.
As far as this being the best team ever to try to qualify, who are they trying to kid?
The best team, is the team that qualified in 1986 and that was because we had a good number of players playing in a professional league, training daily with top players.
These, so called great players, have only whined and moaned about the Coach after they have lost.
Look in the mirror and be accountable.
Slagging Dale Mitchell in the media is an absolute joke.Any player who has a problem with the Coach should bring it up at the team meetings. If they are not satisfied with the outcome, they can go to the CSA representative to bring the concerns to the board.
It should all be "kept in house".
The CSA should sack any player for "mouthing off" in the media.There are ways to get things done without bringing the game into disrepute.
Who the hell is Jim Brennan? Want's to come into camp when it suits him, but will complain when he is not selected.Who is he playing for? Canada or himself?
Dwayne surprises me with his comments, I thought that he had a bit more class about him.
Prima-Donna's.
Anyway that's my moan for the day.
My finger is killing me.
I think DJones post is right on with the exception of changing the coach if they don't qualify. It should not be automatic - they need to evaluate the overall situation.
Dude's business analogy misses out on thing businesses do to get to the next level and that is a merger. Maybe we should merge with Honduras. We could buy that country!
It seems clear that there were issues in this team from the outset and maybe if guys on that side weren't keen on the coach, they should have simply opted out and let the guys play who wanted to play.
As long as everyone thinks a coach is going to make chicken salad of chicken shite, things will never get better internationally. Our top players will go to Europe where the money and best leagues are! That will always screw Canada. Yes, Brazil and other South American top teams have some of those same issues but most play local and they can create a team with some chemistry. Canada is always up against it.
I am reluctant to condemn players for yapping as it is a huge risk for them to play internationally as they will tell you themselves- they risk losing their spot with their home clubs that actually pay them their living.
It is not like an English player or Scottish player in their leagues traveling an hour or two to training and their coaches are fine with that. Travel to Canada during the season is not something that many European managers would be fine with (if they actually spoke what they are thinking) and this is tough on a player.
Utah - WTF!!! If Canada was putting more of his talent on the pitch with his dedication as a player and ability to create plays, they'd be in every World Cup! I do agree though that just because he was one of our greatest players, that doesn't make him necessarily a top coach for the international team.
Waiters should be back as a consultant to those dudes. Remember their games in the Atlantic provinces to freeze out their opponents etc and make them play in the wind? These guys thought of everything and it worked in 1986 - but they were on borrowed time living off the benefits of the NASL that by then was defunct. I am not sure even Tony who I respect much could turn this lot around.
I think Willi Azzi's CAT system is to blame!
johnnybluenose
Well-Known Member
You all make my head hurt
trece verde
Well-Known Member
Thinking makes your head hurt.
Canada is world class. We just need two starters and two good subs. We need a sixfoot three centere mid strong on the ball and in the air,and one more big striker. Rest we have.
You guys just look at the size of some clubs we play. In the box they push us around like children. We try to carry the ball far to much and lose it to two men presure from the other clubs. Our centre mid is not strong enough in the air. That is one area we need to address. Also in the last third crosses are not addressed, Friend needs one more guy with him with good ability in the air. We need to play Canadian soccer. Forget all that sixty pases to get to the other side. One two three or four,good cross and kick ass. They think way to much, play the dam game.
You guys just look at the size of some clubs we play. In the box they push us around like children. We try to carry the ball far to much and lose it to two men presure from the other clubs. Our centre mid is not strong enough in the air. That is one area we need to address. Also in the last third crosses are not addressed, Friend needs one more guy with him with good ability in the air. We need to play Canadian soccer. Forget all that sixty pases to get to the other side. One two three or four,good cross and kick ass. They think way to much, play the dam game.
italian_stallion21
Well-Known Member
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