FVSL New Divisional Alignment

[johnnybluenose]

@ Mikey: My thoughts are that it isn;t too small for the Prem level, as that is a small bunch... there is a serious drop off between a 10 team premier division and a larger division
@ N10HB: See above, too many Prem teams gives the better teams too many games "off" and wouldn't prepare them best for Cups and provincials (what they are really playing for anyways)
@ Franchise: Do your pools in the divisions mean a tier or a geographic zone? To me that makes no sense, you could always have a team finish just out of the running in a pool that would hammer a team finishing second in another.

and the div for Hacks thing, while extremely crass imho brings up a point. There were more than a few purely recreational leagues out there in the late 90's and early part of 00's... The GVSSL springs to mind, where you had 8-12 team leagues that were just Sunday beer league. When the last of those leagues folded and you see the faces around town, they are almost all to man playing in the FVSL... hence the growth of the Divisions in D2 and D3 and zoning them... which just waters everything down imho.

 

[mikey_c_9]

I understand your thinking / point but still think that 10 teams is too small for a league.

14 would be a nicer amount and allow more promotion / relegation to "eventually" get a more of a level playing field (excuse the pun)

Great work though JBL, it's going back and forth with ideas that get's people thinking and things rolling.

 

[johnnybluenose]

It's too small for a league, not for a division

agree to disagree

 

[The Franchise]

@ Mikey: My thoughts are that it isn;t too small for the Prem level, as that is a small bunch... there is a serious drop off between a 10 team premier division and a larger division
@ N10HB: See above, too many Prem teams gives the better teams too many games "off" and wouldn't prepare them best for Cups and provincials (what they are really playing for anyways)
@ Franchise: Do your pools in the divisions mean a tier or a geographic zone? To me that makes no sense, you could always have a team finish just out of the running in a pool that would hammer a team finishing second in another.

and the div for Hacks thing, while extremely crass imho brings up a point. There were more than a few purely recreational leagues out there in the late 90's and early part of 00's... The GVSSL springs to mind, where you had 8-12 team leagues that were just Sunday beer league. When the last of those leagues folded and you see the faces around town, they are almost all to man playing in the FVSL... hence the growth of the Divisions in D2 and D3 and zoning them... which just waters everything down imho.

Promoted

1a would go prem
1b would go to 1a
2a to 1b and so on

Geographic zones is garbage.....

 

[johnnybluenose]

So really you are just saying call it div 1 a, b, c etc because you have an ego that could be potentially bruised by saying I play Div 6, not that Inter would ever go that low..

These labels on divisions, why do people get so hung up about it? It must be the same thinking behind a Prem cut refusing to sign div 1 and play 85 minutes plus a game to ride the pine in Prem just so he can tell his mates he plays Prem. Diabolical.

 

[italian_stallion21]

For ego's sake, lets just have Prem, then 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D, 1E, and 1F. At the end of the season, everyone will get a trophy saying they're winners. That way you can either play Prem or D1, and to top it off since you won it, and have the trophy to prove it.

 

[The Franchise]

So really you are just saying call it div 1 a, b, c etc because you have an ego that could be potentially bruised by saying I play Div 6, not that Inter would ever go that low..

These labels on divisions, why do people get so hung up about it? It must be the same thinking behind a Prem cut refusing to sign div 1 and play 85 minutes plus a game to ride the pine in Prem just so he can tell his mates he plays Prem. Diabolical.

Never even thought about the label thing actually just much simpler then have 9 divisions of 10

 

[johnnybluenose]

For ego's sake, lets just have Prem, then 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D, 1E, and 1F. At the end of the season, everyone will get a trophy saying they're winners. That way you can either play Prem or D1, and to top it off since you won it, and have the trophy to prove it.

Lol! Stallion, you are onto something! You should run for FVSL Prez!

 

[italian_stallion21]

Totally forgot to bring that up last night. Must have been tired.

 

[johnnybluenose]

I got a few texts telling me to check out the early signs of a divisional alignment after the team contacts section of the site was updated recently. It's being called 2010/'11 (Provisional)

-Whitecaps Prospects seem to be missing in action, and therefore it looks like ND is keeping their Prem spot, and no team promoted from D1 last year to Prem for this year.
-Aldergrove Utd goes from Div 1 to 2A, Abbey Arsenal to 2B, PA Selects (merged with LUFC Nomads to become PA Nomads) in 2C
-the Div 1 pool of teams (currently they are all labeled as Div 1A) goes from 18 teams to 19 teams, new teams being ACBC B, Guildford Utd, Fraser Valley Red Devils, WRU, and GEU Inter with PoMo staying in 2A
-Poco Pacific and Poco Rockets from 3A to 2A, Clones and BC United from 3b to 2b, Abbey United SC and ND United to 2C from 3C
-PoMo Lions from 2A to 3A, Lufc Knights and Westcoast from 2B to 3B, Bradner Redshirts from 2C to 3C (somehow LUFC Wolves stay in 2C)

86 teams in open divisons in 09/10, 82 for 10/11
Missing are Whitecaps Prospects, Columbia Bearcats, Poco Rovers, and Surrey Rovers.

To me, it looks pretty easy to finalize (assuming all teams listed are actually fielding teams this year)
10 teams in Prem
Add 1 team to Div 1 and have 2 pools of ten teams
2A has 10, add a team to 2B to make 10, 2C has ten
23 teams in Div 3, 21 if 1 Div 2 team moves to Div 1, and 1 team moves from 3 to 2, therefore 1 division with 21 (Not a round schedule) or 2 with 11 in 1 and 10 in 1, or 3 of 7 (Weird schedule)

Or...
10 teams in Premier (one gets relegated)
19 in Division one with a single game played against each team (one gets promoted, two go down)
20 In Division two in 2 groups of 10 (winners only go up, last 2 in each go down)
20 In Division three in 2 groups of 10 (top 2 in each go up, bottom 2 go down in each)
13 teams in division 4 (top two go up)

Benefit to this is any new team applying starts in Division 4, unless they are coming from a league where they can show they are worthy of starting higher, and if they were to go on successive Promo it would only take 4 years to get to Prem should they be that good (see ACBC Prem over last four years)
It streamlines the divisions, except for a large division 1, which will only have one go up anyways, even if it isn't a home and home schedule, the best team will ultimately win Promotion. You could even have a second from last Prem team play the Div 1 runners up for a playoff at the same time as Pak Cup Final is played.

 

[Dude]

Doesn't begin to address the issue of being watered down at the top.

If anything, they should not be adding more div. 1 teams. What I hope they do is implement a "3 down, 2 up" system for the next several years. If teams fold out of div. 1, do not fill in their spot w/ div. 2. Implement the same w/ div. 2. Make div 3 and / or a div 4 as deep as it needs to be. Get down to 10 Premier, and one day 12 div. 1. 14 at most.

By doing this you will in time make Premier and div. 1 much stronger, and div. 2 more competitive as well.

Lets see if the new executive can get away from the pints and dart boards long enough to do something productive. That's right KNVB, I'm taking aim.

 

[johnnybluenose]

I agree, its just a massive shift to happen, but today is as good a day as any to make the changes.

The only way a two pool division 1 will work is if 2 are being relegated from prem and 1 team from both div1 pools go up, otherwise it is just too difficult But Ideally div 1 and prem would be as small and tight as possible.

Also playing an 18 week schedule for regular season dictates either 10 or 19 team divisions for the sake of round schedules.

If I was king for a day it would be divisions of 10 teams from Premier to Division 7 with 2 teams tacked on to the lowest division based on 82 teams for 2010/11 as per the current contacts page.

The problem becomes then, how do you equitably split the teams up into those divisions when you cant possible have any strength of schedule to base those findings on, because of the years of having 2 or 3 pools in each division based on geographic zones. It would take two to three years for it to even out properly, and try selling that to a guy who is in his last years of open soccer to be in division 4 when his team should have or could have been in division 2 or 3...

 

[ghouse]

Well....Some very good Ideas . I agree with JBN and Dude on almost everything..I hate the Rec division idea though...
All your other Ideas work and make the league stronger..Less Div 1 teams makes the league stronger most of all.
Make it harder to get there and harder to stay there and then you really will have the Cream at the top...
And I agree ,Now is as good a time as any to shake things up...

 

[johnnybluenose]

Okay.... looks like perhaps a cat was let out the bag early... so I will post what is up on the site...

Latest News- July 25, 2010

*

Sat July 24 - The FVSL Executive Committee today passed an executive resolution to expel 11 teams for non payment of 09/10 team balances and put another 11 on notice of expulsion by August 7th if certain conditions are not met by that date. Teams will be notified by e-mail. Other items of note -
*

Division 1 will remain 1 single division for 1 more season.
*

17 New teams were approved and accepted into the league for the 2010/11 Season.
*

WELCOME to the following teams -
*

Division 3 - North Delta Royals; Pique FC; Guildford FC Lions; S.P. Lions; Poco Hawks; Fraser Valley Athletic; TWU Alumni; BC United; Mission Athletic FC;
*

U21 - Poco Rovers FC
*

Masters Div 1 - DFC Razorbacks; Fraser Valley Athletic; SFC Caps; Richmond Dragons; South Surrey FC; Poco City Dominion FC; North Delta Utd Alumni
*

Due to the departure of the Whitecaps Prospects the North Delta Lions will stay in the Premier division.
*

NEW Divisional Alignment Proposal submitted by the Div. Alignment Sub Committee has been approved for the 2011/12 season, details to follow.
*

Divisional Alignment has been approved for the 2010/11 season, details to follow.

* Deadline for Team Registration Payments ($1400) for 2010/11 season is August 15, 2010

Interesting stuff. Richmond Dragons going to Masters Div 1... also interesting.

 

[Dude]

PAU Nomads? Do tell.

Nomads is a good name for you guys, eh?

You know JBN, I realy think a 10 team Prem, 10 team div. 1, 10 team div. 2, multiple table div. 3 & 4 would make the league outstanding. Your thoughts?

 

[johnnybluenose]

Hmmm. Just checkout the team contacts page, which has again been updated.

Premier is ten teams: No surprises, except LUFC is now called LUFC Athletics.
Div 1 is 17 teams: LUFC Athletics gone (to premier?).. but a Blank LUFC team with Gary Kilby's name appears..
Div 2 is 3 pools, much like last year... GEU Inter not gone up, in 2A (Early favorite for my money, with Pomo Gunners), 2B has us Nomads in there again, with 2 LUFC teams (incl LUFC Clones promo from D3), Aldergrove Utd (last year D1) BC United (Promoted from 3) and stingy ND Titans, 2 C has same as last year, but with Abby from D3.

The big cull appears to have happened in D3.

anyways here is your provisional alignment -> Team Contacts

 

[johnnybluenose]

PAU Nomads? Do tell.

Nomads is a good name for you guys, eh?

You know JBN, I realy think a 10 team Prem, 10 team div. 1, 10 team div. 2, multiple table div. 3 & 4 would make the league outstanding. Your thoughts?

Nomads for a reason! We actually called ourselves that because we made our team, initially, out of 3 or 4 disbanded teams. Now it means something again... lol.

We merged our team with the PAU Selects of last year (2-4 guys) and the 4 remaining guys from LUFC Athletica.

I like your alignment Dude... that would be great, for next year

 

[number10hamburgler]

What happened to the previous posts? Thought the alignment was finalized and ok to talk about
10 team Premier
10 team Div.1
10 team Div.2
20 team Div.3
40 team Div.4

Looks that way. If so, the league needs to look at a fair/equitable way to carry out the transition next year instead of slashing and burning and dumping 27 Div.2 teams in a Div.3 and no Div.2 winners in Div.1. Cause there are some Div.2 teams that can beat those relegated Div.1 teams.

Not sure how exactly the league will finalize things or when the details will be released, but an idea would be 15 teams in Div.2 with the 7 relegated Div.1 teams coming down along with the top 7 Div.2. And the Div.2 winners going into Div.1. Maybe even maintain 2 Div.2 sections of 10 teams each section. A and B or East and West.

Anyways, Good on the league for making the changes, definitely going in the right direction and should make for a really competitive Premier and Div.1.

 

[Dude]

I like it too JBN, and I expect full credit for this wonderful idea if it comes to fruition. I think it should be called the "Dude" FVSL, sort of like the "New" NHL.

Since it is my idea.

It should look something like this:

Premier -10 teams
Div 1 -10
Div 2 -10
Div 3East -10 Div 3West -10
Div 4North -10 Div 4South -10 Div 4East -10 Div 4West -10

I figure North/South/East/West in the lower divisions...you know, to address travel issues.

Here's what I think they should do for Promotion/Religation:
Premier -1 down
Div 1 - 1 up and 2 down
Div 2 - 2 up and 2 down
Div 3 - 1 up each and 2 down each
Div 4 - 1 up each

I think the league should go to town with this format.

 

[johnnybluenose]

I think you are on to something.

Looking forward to the "Dude FVSL" '11/12