How will HPL affect Gold/Silver levels

[bettermirror]

^I agree re: club affiliations. In the end, the kids will go where they please regardless of a Club X supports HPL Club Y.

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[islandsoccer]

Be ready for a very strong Gold level for a very long time, as well as silver. Until the powers of the HPL come up w/ a plan to subsidize the players, the system is flawed and destined to fail.

And club TDs...the pressure is now on you guys to come up with a way of giving the best players in your club- likely Gold now- a clear development path.

I tend to agree, it is up to the Club and District Coaching elite to propose how to restructure so as to best support the overall goal of having players playing to their capabilities in an effort to stop the continued decline through player attrition. Hidding behind artifical club/district boundaries or transfer rules will not work going forward, the clubs that invest in player development and facilities will be rewarded. The same with Club governance, if your organization does not openly post board minutes a month after they happen and year end financials for all your members to see then you should not be entitled to subsidies like gaming grants etc.

After this weekends BCSA decision (which I expect will pass) we can expect to see a flury of posturing. Every club would be wise to pull out the CSA Club Charter and do a gap analysis of their club programs and come up with a plan to address them!

However Districts and BCSA bear a lot of responsibility to foster the climate to promote development at all levels and areas, show the intended 3 year vision and lets get that discussion going! At the same time get on with showing how the pull up/play down model between Tier 1 and Tier 2 can possibly work. Describe a consistent DDC model for all districts to follow!!! Otherwise ....

 

[GEORDIE]

Absolutely...some Gold 1 teams are stronger than some Metro teams.

The caliber of players in Tier 1 programs at small clubs/districts on average could compare with the caliber of players in Tier 2 programs at larger clubs/districts.

Look at the Boys U14A selects division compared to the boys 5 District U14 Gold (BC Soccer Central. Surrey FC and Whalley combine resources at the selects level yet at the Gold level they have 3 teams competing and they are positioned in 1st, 3rd and 5th place. It is a safe bet that two of these three "Gold" teams could combine to create a Selects team that performs consistently better than the Langley or Abbotsford Selects and could possibly challenge for a top 8 spot.

There are many other examples on the girls side that match this...(gmsl.ca vs bccgsl.ca).

These issues tend to crop up because of the closed market that exists (district boundaries). Teams can only carry 3 players from outside of their district (at U16 or below) and 5 players after that (this number was only recently increased and is due to player attrition...kids get tired of playing in the same environment and against the same opponents for 6 years yet the number of top tier teams never seems to decrease the caliber of player just gets more and more diluted.

The HPL move and the adoption of an open market (i.e. no district boundaries) is a positive move and will finally allow our top tier players choice based on how they perform and not based on where they live. All those Gold 1 kids at Surrey FC and Whalley could try out for and make a CMF tier 1 team in the HPL but could not do so under the current Selects league so the level of competition at our top tier gets driven up and the level of competition at the Gold 1 level should increase too given that the top third of Tier 2 kids are a short step away from displacing the bottom third of Tier 1 kids (assuming the Tier 2 league operates under similar guidelines as the Tier 1 league).

Would the Gold 1 teams get a chance to play against the HPL teams during the season in a cup competition etc.

 

[bettermirror]

HPL and Gold will have different calendars. HPL spring to fall and Gold Fall to spring. Very little overlap. Also there is discussion of the best Gold teams joining with the remaining metro teams (maybe). Those Gold/Metro teams might be able to play a cup competition and the winner or finalists will then be able to have a playoff with the 7th or 8th place HPL teams to get into the A Cup.

Long story short. NO.

 

[Mal]

Absolutely...some Gold 1 teams are stronger than some Metro teams.

The caliber of players in Tier 1 programs at small clubs/districts on average could compare with the caliber of players in Tier 2 programs at larger clubs/districts.

Look at the Boys U14A selects division compared to the boys 5 District U14 Gold (BC Soccer Central. Surrey FC and Whalley combine resources at the selects level yet at the Gold level they have 3 teams competing and they are positioned in 1st, 3rd and 5th place. It is a safe bet that two of these three "Gold" teams could combine to create a Selects team that performs consistently better than the Langley or Abbotsford Selects and could possibly challenge for a top 8 spot.

There are many other examples on the girls side that match this...(gmsl.ca vs bccgsl.ca).

These issues tend to crop up because of the closed market that exists (district boundaries). Teams can only carry 3 players from outside of their district (at U16 or below) and 5 players after that (this number was only recently increased and is due to player attrition...kids get tired of playing in the same environment and against the same opponents for 6 years yet the number of top tier teams never seems to decrease the caliber of player just gets more and more diluted.

The HPL move and the adoption of an open market (i.e. no district boundaries) is a positive move and will finally allow our top tier players choice based on how they perform and not based on where they live. All those Gold 1 kids at Surrey FC and Whalley could try out for and make a CMF tier 1 team in the HPL but could not do so under the current Selects league so the level of competition at our top tier gets driven up and the level of competition at the Gold 1 level should increase too given that the top third of Tier 2 kids are a short step away from displacing the bottom third of Tier 1 kids (assuming the Tier 2 league operates under similar guidelines as the Tier 1 league).

BC soccer must ensure that the majority of players not chosen for HPL are looked after . It seems everything is about the HPL and the others seem to be forgotten even though there may be talented players in Gold who for either financial reasons can,t afford the HPL or their parents cannot commit to driving them to clubs over an hrs drive away a few times a week.

 

[bettermirror]

BC soccer must ensure that the majority of players not chosen for HPL are looked after . It seems everything is about the HPL and the others seem to be forgotten even though there may be talented players in Gold who for either financial reasons can,t afford the HPL or their parents cannot commit to driving them to clubs over an hrs drive away a few times a week.

What is your proposal Mal?

 

[soccerdad]

What is your proposal Mal?

I don't think there's any reason to think that these kids (ones that don't go HPL )won't be properly looked after is there? Or at least any less so than before the HPL came along.
My child plans to try out for and make an HPL squad but the kids who don't make the move "up" will still be coached by the personel I was expecting my kid would be have been coached by had HPL never come along and I was comfortable with where she was likely going to settle and who she was going to be coached by.

Is the coaching ALL top notch? No but has HPL changed that for the non HPL kids?

Keep in mind that all the HPL excitement and talk ( on this and other forums ) is mostly coming from people who have or coach kids who are on that cusp, go talk to many silver and house parents and it's non issue, most are really not aware and neither are their kids.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Good luck the kids and parents who can afford HPL.......the rest of us will continue to do our best in devloping all players to the best of their abilities. It's not a secret........

 

[bravedart]

BC soccer must ensure that the majority of players not chosen for HPL are looked after . It seems everything is about the HPL and the others seem to be forgotten even though there may be talented players in Gold who for either financial reasons can,t afford the HPL or their parents cannot commit to driving them to clubs over an hrs drive away a few times a week.

You will probably find that the tier 2 kids will get better looked after then before HPL. Take Surrey FC for example...they currently have a full and part time paid technical staff as well as paid office staff (not sure if they still have a full time Executive Director). Guarenteed that this staff spends 70% or more of their time working with their Tier 1 kids. If SFC does not get an HPL franchise many of their top kids will leave to join HPL leaving all of their staff to focus the majority of their time on developing the Tier 2 players.

There are also many other clubs out there with full time staff who's highest competitive level is Gold. These clubs are producing more and more talented kids at U11, U12,U13 and U14 then we have really ever seen before.

I work full time in the game and to be honest I mostly work with Tier 1 kids. It is very rare that I see bronze or silver kids play any more but when I do I am constantly surprised by the average calibre of these kids...I often mistake bronze for silver and silver for gold...our base is getting better because of the money being invested to hire professional staff to establish and implement programming standards consistently over time.

For the most part (from what I have experienced) our base is being taken care of. It is the top tier that is FAR too inclusive and therefore diluted who are being neglected...3 hours a week of training (2 sessions) does not develop a player but minimally maintains their current level.

 

[bettermirror]

I really enjoy your post. And yes, the HPL clubs simply won't be able to ignore the lower tiers as they will require the base.

 

[Dude]

One positive from the HPL is all the discussion taking place. I can't remember such a hotly contested topic in youth soccer in a long, long time. That means there is a lot of passion, and hopefully the Powers that Be are taking notice and have a plan of action to smooth out the warts.

I'm absolutely convinced that for this to succeed, subsidization has to occure, and shrinking the age groups to U-15 and up. Basically, grade 8 and up. Shrink it, make it better, and direct more resources.

Also, the comment about the longstanding clubs like SU & CMF being the models of this initiative, I have to agree, and it's a good thing if other clubs will now need to aim higher to improve internally to bring themselves up to that level of quality expectation. That's a major beef of mine in the Breakers / CCFC merger: it is currently a merger w/ out a quality goal, only a membership goal. They will need to put in place action plans to bring the level of quality up to the likes of SU and CMF. These clubs are the standard bearer now.

 

[Polska]

BRING BACK CAPE HORN SOCCER CLUB!

 

[islandsoccer]

F Y I (especially if you have a player in UISA/Nanaimo or LISA on the Island)

Here are some of the proposals for Tier2 on the Island that are posted in order to get the upcoming club/district level discussions started.

LISA Tier 2 Blog

Comments are welcomed as long as they are relevant to the Islands unique situation.

 

[bettermirror]

great stuff!

 

[GEORDIE]

Absolutely...some Gold 1 teams are stronger than some Metro teams.

The caliber of players in Tier 1 programs at small clubs/districts on average could compare with the caliber of players in Tier 2 programs at larger clubs/districts.

Look at the Boys U14A selects division compared to the boys 5 District U14 Gold (BC Soccer Central. Surrey FC and Whalley combine resources at the selects level yet at the Gold level they have 3 teams competing and they are positioned in 1st, 3rd and 5th place. It is a safe bet that two of these three "Gold" teams could combine to create a Selects team that performs consistently better than the Langley or Abbotsford Selects and could possibly challenge for a top 8 spot.

There are many other examples on the girls side that match this...(gmsl.ca vs bccgsl.ca).

These issues tend to crop up because of the closed market that exists (district boundaries). Teams can only carry 3 players from outside of their district (at U16 or below) and 5 players after that (this number was only recently increased and is due to player attrition...kids get tired of playing in the same environment and against the same opponents for 6 years yet the number of top tier teams never seems to decrease the caliber of player just gets more and more diluted.

The HPL move and the adoption of an open market (i.e. no district boundaries) is a positive move and will finally allow our top tier players choice based on how they perform and not based on where they live. All those Gold 1 kids at Surrey FC and Whalley could try out for and make a CMF tier 1 team in the HPL but could not do so under the current Selects league so the level of competition at our top tier gets driven up and the level of competition at the Gold 1 level should increase too given that the top third of Tier 2 kids are a short step away from displacing the bottom third of Tier 1 kids (assuming the Tier 2 league operates under similar guidelines as the Tier 1 league).

Whats the schedule for this year :

HPL tryouts - when will these be ?
Tryouts for Gold + Silver in March or April ?
Will the Metro leage still continue this year or will it be finished with the announcement of the franchisees ?
Will Gold 1 be attached to HPL and known as HPL tier 2 or will it still be known as Gold 1 ?
With so many players being available for Gold /Silver - how many Gold 1 and Gold 2 teams are clubs allowed ?

 

[bettermirror]

Each franchise will announce their own tryout date. How can any of us know this? OKanagan, Victoria, CMF and Abby have SYL tryouts first. So how they will then select HPL would be different than the other clubs in HPL. Assuming CMF and Abby are both in HPL of course.

 

[Mr Base]

Gordie gold would be bronze soccer or tear two after HPL. Rest would be house development. They can call it what they want but that's the way it is. Silver one will loose kids to gold as they should, most coaches are hiding three very good players at that level. This will become a good spin off. Select tryouts will go as is. They must retain select program as second level or they would be going totaly backwards.
You just never know with these people. Lots of them never played soccer and some things are so far off that your head starts spinning.
I truly hope that it does not become a jumble due to some coaches that onlt think about personal egoes.
Soon to be seen.

 

[Dude]

Gordie gold would be bronze soccer or tear two after HPL. Rest would be house development. They can call it what they want but that's the way it is. Silver one will loose kids to gold as they should, most coaches are hiding three very good players at that level. This will become a good spin off. Select tryouts will go as is. They must retain select program as second level or they would be going totaly backwards.
You just never know with these people. Lots of them never played soccer and some things are so far off that your head starts spinning.
I truly hope that it does not become a jumble due to some coaches that onlt think about personal egoes.
Soon to be seen.

Base, many coaches have never played soccer at any significant level, so yes, a lot of them become blinded by supporting their own team and keeping their own tallent. It's their "shot" at having success in the game, on the backs of youth.

 

[islandsoccer]

back to the original discussion thread here:

How do people expect Tier2 on the Mainland will work?

- fewer teams? more teams?
- boundary/OOD rules to stay in effect?
- existing club teams or HPL-partnerships extended to Tier2?
- is the Island (in form of a UVI team) still welcomed to particpate even if that means they have to play all their games on the mainland??
- what is it the league is playing for? B Cup?

would be nice to see some discussions and thoughts around these questions....anyone care to comment?

 

[Outwest]

I can only speak to the girls side. There are only 6-10 Metro teams in each age group now. And some of those teams are not competitive and probably shouldn't be there. After HPL is set up there I don't think there will be much change to the rest of the Coastal League. Those players that don't want to play all year, or can't afford the $$ or time will disperse among the gold teams, adding to that league's strength. There aren't enough players left after HPL to have a Tier 2 Metro league and once the ex-Metro players are dispersed, it will only add a couple of players to each club Gold team. It doesn't make sense to disrupt the current club environment by forcing HPL2 on the system. I don't the OOD rules matter all that much at this level, most would rather play close to home as they aren't fishing for something greater.