Is Messi the best ever?

[jimmy_jones]

messi is good, no he is great. but not the best. when you talk about the best footballers of all time you hear some common names. pele, maradona, best, ronaldo, zidane, and messi......you dont always hear them in that order, dont get me wrong. but the first two names you hear usually are pele and maradona. i think pele is the greatest to ever play the game. he did it at the highest level where it really counts the most. he won 3 world cups....messi is a genius with the ball no doubt but at their times and at the age of 24, who's to say pele wasnt a genius? or maradona wasnt a genius, ffs, he scored with his fcuking hand (in the world cup!)....at the club level, messi is a beast, but until he can get it done at the international level, he can never be "THE BEST".

 

[Dancin Bear]

No, it's not all about winning a world cup. Messi is compared to Maradona. Maradona (and Pele) are known to be the greatest of all time. That's what Messi has to live up to.
Remember Ronaldhino, Zidane....those boys has won everything, including a world cup. They're known for having incredible talent but never mentioned in the 'greatest of all time' arguments. Messi, in my opinion, is held to a different standard. Perhaps it would have been an easy decision if Maradona had never existed.

Football is a team game. It's certainly a team game in Barcelona, but in a country like Argentina, the majority don't see it that way. They had a Maradona who did it by himself and to a certain degree, Mario Kempes in 1978.
If the wee man never won a world cup, that would be the lasting argument.....that he never did it on the greatest stage of them all. And that to many is a good enough argument. It doesn't make him any lesser of a player, no, but it does allow for mere mortals the world over to argue that he was an amazing talent, but........ Rightly or wrongly.

 

[djones]

If anyone cares to count... (including his latest hatty)

 

[sid]

I hear jTL is running for thee best to ever play the game....
Jut saying

Sid

 

[bulljive]

No, it's not all about winning a world cup. Messi is compared to Maradona. Maradona (and Pele) are known to be the greatest of all time. That's what Messi has to live up to.
Remember Ronaldhino, Zidane....those boys has won everything, including a world cup. They're known for having incredible talent but never mentioned in the 'greatest of all time' arguments. Messi, in my opinion, is held to a different standard. Perhaps it would have been an easy decision if Maradona had never existed.

Football is a team game. It's certainly a team game in Barcelona, but in a country like Argentina, the majority don't see it that way. They had a Maradona who did it by himself and to a certain degree, Mario Kempes in 1978.
If the wee man never won a world cup, that would be the lasting argument.....that he never did it on the greatest stage of them all. And that to many is a good enough argument. It doesn't make him any lesser of a player, no, but it does allow for mere mortals the world over to argue that he was an amazing talent, but........ Rightly or wrongly.

Agreed. I would also like to see him play on a team that isn't custom made for his style. Barcelona is maybe the greatest team off all time. I like to see the top guys do it for not only different teams but in different countries over their career. It's not like Agrentina doesn't have a quality team (messi, dimaria, higuan, Tevez, Aguero, Mascherano) but he needs to adapt his game to be successful there. So far he hasn't been to productive in a different environment.

 

[Dude]

...Remember Ronaldhino, Zidane....those boys has won everything, including a world cup. They're known for having incredible talent but never mentioned in the 'greatest of all time' arguments.

On what planet is Zidane NOT mentioned in the argument for greatest of all time? Seriously? Must be Bizzaro World.

FFS, give me strength.

 

[The Franchise]

 

[bored]

The body of work is incomplete for Messi - he may well end up being the greatest ever but at the moment he is simply great.

 

[Chelsea4life]

Such a rattling conversation to start, and unfair to compare the guy to the greatest ever at 24... I agree with JJ win a world cup (better performances) and Bulljive ( I would honestly like to see him compete for 2-5 years in the EPL and see how his body handles harder tackles and the cold weather). Barca is the best in the world no doubt, with (for right now the best player in the world, maybe even top 3 with iniesta and xavi). Best to ever play...no.....(not yet)

 

[elbowroom]

Barca is the best in the world no doubt

5 points behind Real Madrid...you mean the 2nd Best!

 

[italian_stallion21]

I always go back to who they played against? I'm not JBN enough to go look it up myself, but what kind of national teams were Pele and Maradonna up against? How many countries had a legitimate shot at winning a world cup back then? I just don't seeing either of them having the competition the Messi has to face, day in and day out.

 

[johnnybluenose]

I just feel the way I do based on Globalization and how Football, although it's always been the "World's Game" is now well and truly a global game where the best players often do not stay in their domestic leagues etc.

Pele played his entire career with Santos in Brasil prior to moving to the NASL. He never had to play Manchester United, Barcelona, etc etc etc. On the World Stage he, with Brasil, excelled- but again the game wasn't as "pro" as it is now and thus one would be lead to think that many players never realized their potential or some countries at the time under bad polticial climes couldn't/wouldn't compete globally or properly.

The argument could also be made, to have a much better fact-based argument/debate, that one cannot compare Pele to Messi or Best to C-Ron or Zidane to Platini etc based on different eras. The same argument comes up talking Orr v Howe v Lemiuex v Gretzky v Crosby...different eras, different rules, different medicine/equipment etc.

 

[Dancin Bear]

On what planet is Zidane NOT mentioned in the argument for greatest of all time? Seriously? Must be Bizzaro World.

FFS, give me strength.

Zidane, who personally I think was an absolute genius, is mentioned as one of the greats to play the game. That's unquestionable. He is not rated higher than Pele or Maradona and that is fact....from players, pundits and wankers like you and I alike. An unbelievable talent, yes, but better than Messi, Maradona or Pele, no, not according to the general consensus........ making him not 'mentioned' as the greatest of all time.

Is that enough strength for you?

 

[Dude]

Zidane, who personally I think was an absolute genius, is mentioned as one of the greats to play the game. That's unquestionable. He is not rated higher than Pele or Maradona and that is fact....from players, pundits and wankers like you and I alike. An unbelievable talent, yes, but better than Messi, Maradona or Pele, no, not according to the general consensus........ making him not 'mentioned' as the greatest of all time.

Is that enough strength for you?

YOU don't rate him up there as one of the greatest, but many do...not just for his club achievements, but he carried France to a WC and EURO, FFS. France.

He was dominant at the WC twice, was named MVP in 2006 and should have been in 1998 if the award were based on merrit and impact at critical moments, not just scorring. He out-right dominated the final while Ronaldo wilted.

It is difficult to argue that any other player has been as dominant as a CMF than Zidane, or has provided better leadership.

For me, it is ZZ, Pele, or Maradona. If I were to have my choice of any of the three today in their prime, I'd take ZZ.

Anyhow, opinions are like assholes- we all have one, and most of us are one.

 

[italian_stallion21]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone defend the French like that before.

 

[Balsa]

I am late in this discussion but I have to comment. Comparing era's (in any sport) as mentioned is not a fair way to go about things. Do you think any players of today could play as well as they did in era's of the past while high on blow or drunk as a skunk? Do people seriously think that athletes of old were less talented or athletic than the ones of today....training, equipment etc is obviously different. Best was drunk. Maradonna was high. Clean those two up and give them all of today's advantages and imagine the outcome.

At the end of the day it's the trophy case that is going to decide and Messi is still a bit short. As mentioned in this post he plays for a very good National Team and has done nothing much. Once he win's the WC it will be hard to argue his status as the best.

I am a Maradonna voter myself with Pele second Zidane as my third choice.

 

[johnnybluenose]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone defend the French like that before.

even themselves...

 

[Dude]

even themselves...

I thought the better part of the Allied Forces defended France in the two world wars? Here I thought that was a popular thing to do...

 

[Tim Berners-Lee]

Theres 4 of them right now who have proved themselves. Only 1 is a forward- the best forward of all time - Ronaldo. There's the black and white footage of pele and his 3 world cups, There's maradonna winning the world cup on his own, and then there's the best of our generation in Zidane. End of the day it's what you do in the world cup. Messi is unreal, and having one of the best club seasons of all time but.........Hes doing it on an all star team . All the big coaches have said it- This current barcelona team is the best team of all time.
It's not like his name is George and he's from Liberia or Northern Ireland- He's plays for Argentina who is a top 10 team. 2014 is his chance ......God damn that must be some crazy pressure..

0 world cup goals. He really has no place in the best ever talk right now

 

[cascadesoccer]

my god, look what i have started.