Is Messi the best ever?

[Dancin Bear]

YOU don't rate him up there as one of the greatest, but many do...not just for his club achievements, but he carried France to a WC and EURO, FFS. France.

He was dominant at the WC twice, was named MVP in 2006 and should have been in 1998 if the award were based on merrit and impact at critical moments, not just scorring. He out-right dominated the final while Ronaldo wilted.

It is difficult to argue that any other player has been as dominant as a CMF than Zidane, or has provided better leadership.

For me, it is ZZ, Pele, or Maradona. If I were to have my choice of any of the three today in their prime, I'd take ZZ.

Anyhow, opinions are like assholes- we all have one, and most of us are one.

Ok, follow the bouncing ball.

I actually do rate him as one of the greatest. I believe I mentioned that he is mentioned as one of the greats but when it comes to THEE greatest of all time, he's not mentioned.
I am also fully aware of the man's accomplishments and agree that as CMF, there was no-one like him. He was also a great leader.....right up to that point when he stuck the heid on Materrazzi but that's probably for another thread.
You can say what you like to make your argument stronger, but the argument in today's world on who is (again) THEE greatest, there are 3 players mentioned....and the great Zidane isn't one of them.

 

[Dancin Bear]

Theres 4 of them right now who have proved themselves. Only 1 is a forward- the best forward of all time - Ronaldo. There's the black and white footage of pele and his 3 world cups, There's maradonna winning the world cup on his own, and then there's the best of our generation in Zidane. End of the day it's what you do in the world cup. Messi is unreal, and having one of the best club seasons of all time but.........Hes doing it on an all star team . All the big coaches have said it- This current barcelona team is the best team of all time.
It's not like his name is George and he's from Liberia or Northern Ireland- He's plays for Argentina who is a top 10 team. 2014 is his chance ......God damn that must be some crazy pressure..

0 world cup goals. He really has no place in the best ever talk right now

He has 1.

 

[Sir M]

Did Sneijder get transferred to Barcelona?

 

[Tim Berners-Lee]

He has 1.

True-
In the next match against Serbia and Montenegro, Messi became the youngest player to represent Argentina at a World Cup when he came on as a substitute for Maxi Rodríguez in the 74th minute. He assisted Hernán Crespo's goal within minutes of entering the game and also scored the final goal in the 6–0 victory, making him the youngest scorer in the tournament and the sixth youngest goalscorer in the history of the World Cup.

Not exactly the highlight on the resume of the best player ever


2006 FIFA World Cup - Messi's goal vs. Serbia (Univision) - YouTube

Im sure there's many more to come

 

[Tim Berners-Lee]

He has 1.

True-
In the next match against Serbia and Montenegro, Messi became the youngest player to represent Argentina at a World Cup when he came on as a substitute for Maxi Rodríguez in the 74th minute. He assisted Hernán Crespo's goal within minutes of entering the game and also scored the final goal in the 6–0 victory, making him the youngest scorer in the tournament and the sixth youngest goalscorer in the history of the World Cup.

Not exactly the highlight on the resume of the best player ever


2006 FIFA World Cup - Messi's goal vs. Serbia (Univision) - YouTube

Im sure there's many more to come

 

[johnnybluenose]

Did Sneijder get transferred to Barcelona?

I'll assume that's directed at me, no - but I rate the three I mentioned as THE Best CM's currently, imho- which Dude's right about: Opinions are like assholes.

 

[Dude]

Ok, follow the bouncing ball.

I actually do rate him as one of the greatest. I believe I mentioned that he is mentioned as one of the greats but when it comes to THEE greatest of all time, he's not mentioned.
I am also fully aware of the man's accomplishments and agree that as CMF, there was no-one like him. He was also a great leader.....right up to that point when he stuck the heid on Materrazzi but that's probably for another thread.
You can say what you like to make your argument stronger, but the argument in today's world on who is (again) THEE greatest, there are 3 players mentioned....and the great Zidane isn't one of them.

My dearest fellow asshole...

We are really just splitting hairs. Can't we just be friends?

Your opinion is ZZ is one of the greatest, just not one of the best 3. My opinion is that for me, he is one of the best three, ever. One of the best 2 or simply the best, actually, as I'd take ZZ over a healthy or coked up Diego. For me a toss up w/ Pele...but such a big generational gap there, too. In all honesty, the only reason Messi isn't right there now is because of the gap in his international resume. That's it. When he carries his team to the WC, and dominates the WC the way ZZ did, I will vault Messi over him and everyone else. The little fcuker is just so damn good...

BTW, the only thing wrong w/ Zidane's head butt was that he didn't go whack the other 10 wops while he was at it.

~Another asshole.

 

[cascadesoccer]

Part 2 of this Thread: Who's the biggest CNUT in Football.

Gattuso?
De Jong?
Materazzi?
Joey Barton?

What do ya think? Lets piss off everyone, shall we...

 

[termatofylakas]

You forgot the biggest cnut of them all cascade, Pepe! But according to Dude it is KNVB, no?

 

[akslop]

Honorable mention to Cruyff and Beckenbauer... whats wrong with u people!

 

[johnnybluenose]

Materazzi. He has no equal.

 

[4thplacetrophy]

Part 2 of this Thread: Who's the biggest CNUT in Football.

Gattuso?
De Jong?
Materazzi?
Joey Barton?

What do ya think? Lets piss off everyone, shall we...

Don't mind Gattuso or De Jong but adding to the list i would say, Totti, Tevez, Busquets and Ibra are up there for me.

 

[Tim Berners-Lee]

Honorable mention to Cruyff and Beckenbauer... whats wrong with u people!

add Van Basten and Eusebio to that list of group " b"

 

[Dancin Bear]

My dearest fellow asshole...

We are really just splitting hairs. Can't we just be friends?

Your opinion is ZZ is one of the greatest, just not one of the best 3. My opinion is that for me, he is one of the best three, ever. One of the best 2 or simply the best, actually, as I'd take ZZ over a healthy or coked up Diego. For me a toss up w/ Pele...but such a big generational gap there, too. In all honesty, the only reason Messi isn't right there now is because of the gap in his international resume. That's it. When he carries his team to the WC, and dominates the WC the way ZZ did, I will vault Messi over him and everyone else. The little fcuker is just so damn good...

BTW, the only thing wrong w/ Zidane's head butt was that he didn't go whack the other 10 wops while he was at it.

~Another asshole.

Don't know about you but I am Hewlett Packard talking about this now. Let's agree to disagree....kind of?

My parting words on this (hopefully) is that I would take Zidane over a coked up Maradona as well......but when Maradona carried Argentina to the 1986 WC, for me, he gained the right to have the reputation of best in the world.....and he wasn't a junkie back then.

Fellow arsehole

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Different generations, different roles in their teams, different positions, different systems, different training methods.....see where I'm going with this?

A lot of great players in this thread and no one is doubting that but we must look at the above and realise, right now, it's impossible to say who is the best of all-time. Right now, Messi is the best in the World. Please remember who the manager of this past World Cup team was.........Maradona.......who left certain types of players out of the squad which the squad needed. All of the other teams who have won the World Cup(except England - who 'cheated' by having a goal allowed which never should have been ), have had the 'balance' around the squad to so and USUALLY a manager who has a clue.

The international thing is somewhat 'tainted' in the fact that there have been several Dutch players who could have been the best player in their position......Cryuff, Neeskins,Krol, Van Basten......have never won a World Cup. Hell people say the 1974 Dutch team assembled has been the best ever.....despite losing in the final to the ze hosts.

Good discussion but we will never agree. For my money, it would be Maradona, if I was forced to pick. Pele scored all his goals in South American football, which traditionally has been very 'one dimensional' where players are allowed to exploit their one v one talents all the team. Other leagues don't allow that. If you don't believe it, watch some Brazilian football. I think it is one of the worst to watch because of this despite them being the best footballing Nations.

Anyway, back after a week in Waikiki. I saw some great pairs of strikers there on the beach.

 

[Walks]

Just saw this quote from Jorge Valdano. Sums it up really :

"We judge Maradona looking at his whole career, Messi is only 24. The sole fact of already comparing them is a tribute to Lionel."

 

[Tactically Inept]

Why can't people ever remember the goal of the century after that hand of god goal.....or the fact that Argentina looked like they could have scored at will and totally dominated England. .

Just asking, but do you remember who was playing for England at the time? The "goal of the century" was Maradona going passed a bunch of old men that could hardly run in the heat of Mexico. You're talking Peter Reid, Terry Butcher, Terry (fckin) Fenwick FFS!

It's like FVRD against PA Rangers masters...and I fckin know about that.

Pele # 1

 

[bergamascho]

BTW, the only thing wrong w/ Zidane's head butt was that he didn't go whack the other 10 wops while he was at it.

Racist slur on Italians...You mad bro?

 

[trece verde]

Pele still.

Keep in mind that he was on the WC team at the age of 17 AND scored 6 goals in the tournament that year, including 2 in the final. Give Messi a chance to catch up first before proclaiming anything quite this rash. For once in his life, Walks actually said something that made sense, even if it was a quote from somebody else.

 

[Walks]

For once in his life, Walks actually said something that made sense, even if it was a quote from somebody else.

Huh ?? Does this make sense then ??

Your taxi's waiting ...