VMSL Restructuring

[gilly]

With the VMSL Premier teams opting out of the BCPL for the upcoming season, there are many questions/concerns about how the proposed restructuring will effect the league. I have posted in other threads, but thought I would create a new thread dedicated solely to possible restructuring ramifications/implications and see what people have as thoughts/ideas/insight into what the league might do collectively.

I have expressed that I like the current 12 team premier, however, after some thought, I was only looking out for the premier league, instead of the league as a whole. This restructuring is a league wide issue, as opposed to the BCPL which was only a Premier division issue.

In fairness to all teams within the league, I believe that the proposed restructuring will only effect the Premier division - most likely for one year, everything else is in place and could remain status quo. A ten team division 1, which will be highly competitive for promotion, three groups of 10 in Divison 2 and two groups of 10 in Division 3.

I don't know exactly what will be discussed at the upcoming executive meeting, but I believe there are only two viable options available to the executive committee to consider.

1. Leave the restructuring in place for all other divisions, except the Premier Division will be expanded to 14 teams for at least one year.

2. Revert back to the constitutional process prior the the BCPL. In other words, the same as this year. Two down in premier, two up from division 1, 2 groups in Divison 1, etc.....

I think the executive will propose #1 as it has the least effect on the league as a whole, but all teams will have the opportunity to vote on the executive's recommendation at the annual AGM.

Any other thoughts?

 

[Polska]

With the VMSL Premier teams opting out of the BCPL for the upcoming season, there are many questions/concerns about how the proposed restructuring will effect the league. I have posted in other threads, but thought I would create a new thread dedicated solely to possible restructuring ramifications/implications and see what people have as thoughts/ideas/insight into what the league might do collectively.

I have expressed that I like the current 12 team premier, however, after some thought, I was only looking out for the premier league, instead of the league as a whole. This restructuring is a league wide issue, as opposed to the BCPL which was only a Premier division issue.

In fairness to all teams within the league, I believe that the proposed restructuring will only effect the Premier division - most likely for one year, everything else is in place and could remain status quo. A ten team division 1, which will be highly competitive for promotion, three groups of 10 in Divison 2 and two groups of 10 in Division 3.

I don't know exactly what will be discussed at the upcoming executive meeting, but I believe there are only two viable options available to the executive committee to consider.

1. Leave the restructuring in place for all other divisions, except the Premier Division will be expanded to 14 teams for at least one year.

2. Revert back to the constitutional process prior the the BCPL. In other words, the same as this year. Two down in premier, two up from division 1, 2 groups in Divison 1, etc.....

I think the executive will propose #1 as it has the least effect on the league as a whole, but all teams will have the opportunity to vote on the executive's recommendation at the annual AGM.

Any other thoughts?

one thought.....


Scrap the Cat divisions

 

[cascadesoccer]

one thought.....


Scrap the Cat divisions

I (even though not a vmsl player) beleive the cat system is good for developing premier players but really leaves the players with nothing to play for apart from a cup. If you win cat you go no where and if you lose cat you go no where, so as a player where does that leave you. (and yes obviously winning the league feels good but your not competing for promotion or anything like that and there is no cost for losing) FVSL has survived now without the Cat division and teams like ACBC and Moody are using the league as ladders and are being quite successful.

 

[Regs]

Re: CAT

How many players playing Premier now started off playing for their club CAT team?

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Re: CAT

How many players playing Premier now started off playing for their club CAT team?

Not many........

 

[rich2]

great point reg's, cat is a useless division.

 

[Ax2-Y]

In my experience with the CAT league, it is just a league where bench players on the first team can get some game time and where management puts shitty youth players who have graduated to the senior level. The quality of soccer is frustratingly awful and player turn out terrible. Scrap it.

 

[Sandman]

I agree CAT is a shambles.....but if you scrap the CAT division - be prepared to lose some provincial spots....something to do with A forms. A certain amount is needed to justify our 8 spots. At least that is what i have been told.

 

[ghouse]

9 spots

 

[Sandman]

should be 10

 

[reedie]

With the VMSL Premier teams opting out of the BCPL for the upcoming season, there are many questions/concerns about how the proposed restructuring will effect the league. I have posted in other threads, but thought I would create a new thread dedicated solely to possible restructuring ramifications/implications and see what people have as thoughts/ideas/insight into what the league might do collectively.

I have expressed that I like the current 12 team premier, however, after some thought, I was only looking out for the premier league, instead of the league as a whole. This restructuring is a league wide issue, as opposed to the BCPL which was only a Premier division issue.

In fairness to all teams within the league, I believe that the proposed restructuring will only effect the Premier division - most likely for one year, everything else is in place and could remain status quo. A ten team division 1, which will be highly competitive for promotion, three groups of 10 in Divison 2 and two groups of 10 in Division 3.

I don't know exactly what will be discussed at the upcoming executive meeting, but I believe there are only two viable options available to the executive committee to consider.

1. Leave the restructuring in place for all other divisions, except the Premier Division will be expanded to 14 teams for at least one year.

2. Revert back to the constitutional process prior the the BCPL. In other words, the same as this year. Two down in premier, two up from division 1, 2 groups in Divison 1, etc.....

I think the executive will propose #1 as it has the least effect on the league as a whole, but all teams will have the opportunity to vote on the executive's recommendation at the annual AGM.

Any other thoughts?

Gilly, the BCPL was definitely a league wide issue but it became very difficult to execute without involvement from the premier teams.

As for restructuring, we still have an opportunity to get this right for the entire league next season, so hopefully we don't mess it up. We can keep the current overall restructuring plan in place but revise the relegation and promotion mandates with div 1 and premier. In order to keep the premier division at 12 teams next season, we can conduct a round robin playoff between the bottom 2 premier teams and the top 3 div 1 teams...with the 2 top teams staying up. This was a great shout by Polska. We can also still reduce div 1 to a 10 team league next season...and so on and so forth all the way down.

That is in the best interest of the entire league.

Will it happen? Not bloody likely.

 

[Polska]

Gilly, the BCPL was definitely a league wide issue but it became very difficult to execute without involvement from the premier teams.


As for restructuring, we still have an opportunity to get this right for the entire league next season, so hopefully we don't mess it up. We can keep the current overall restructuring plan in place but revise the relegation and promotion mandates with div 1 and premier. In order to keep the premier division at 12 teams next season, we can conduct a round robin playoff between the bottom 2 premier teams and the top 3 div 1 teams...with the 2 top teams staying up. This was a great shout by Polska. We can also still reduce div 1 to a 10 team league next season...and so on and so forth all the way down.

That is in the best interest of the entire league.

Will it happen? Not bloody likely.

Polska for VMSL PRESIDENT!

VOTE me for president i promise change!

Yes i can!

To start we will get rid of the free pizza crap and sub it with perogies & kielbasa!

 

[sixfyv]

if you scrap the CAT division - be prepared to lose some provincial spots....something to do with A forms. A certain amount is needed to justify our 8 spots. At least that is what i have been told.

I believe CAT is on B forms... hence why they are in the Div2 cup... and are competing for the B Provincials.

Moot.

 

[ghouse]

Traditionally the number of players signed to A forms determined the number of teams from each league gaining berths into the A Provincials.
Correct me if I am wrong please...But I just got off the phone with a manager of a certain VMSL Club with a CAT team and he told me this year they signed all CAT players to B forms so they would have something to play for.(the B Provincials).
That makes it very interesting to say the least as the PCSL the FVSL and the VISL were not aware of this.....I called and asked.

The PCSL only wants 1 Berth due to the fact that the Provincials are 9 months after the PCSL season is over and also Most Lower mainland players will stay with thier Winter league team which have just finnished thier season and are going straight into the Provincial Cup. That is why you see UBC and Kamloops usually takeing the PCSL berth.
That being said they usually have 18-20 teams on A forms. Usually, as it does change up and down every year. This year 14. Because most spots are allocated at a time before registration, I am guessing that the formula used is based on how many A form teams/players from the previous year.
PCSL 16 (last qualifying season)
VISL 20 teams/players.
FVSL 28 teams/players this year, usually 30 and will be 30 again next year.
VMSL 32 teams/players if it is true the CAT teams all are now on B forms. 52 if not true.

In my opinion the CAT system does not work. LOL If the VMSL or any league is not a stepping stone for Professional soccer as you have said on here many times...why the hell do you need a stepping stone CAT division for any Premier division ???
A CAT team playing in Div 1 or Div 2 is exactly the same thing. You can still call up players. Nothing is any different other than the fact the players have something to play for in Div 1 or Div 2. (promotion/religation/Cup/Provincials)
So really the only use of the CAT system was to keep the number of A form players up to be able to receive more Provincial Berths for the League.
Now if that has changed........

Lets do the math
Based loosely at 20 players per team signed to A forms.

PCSL 16 x 20 = 320
VISL 20 x 20 = 400
FVSL 28 x 20 = 560
VMSL 32 x 20 = 640(no CAT) or 52 x 20 = 1040(with CAT)
96 teams on A forms or 116 teams on A forms.
1920 players on A forms or 2320 players on A forms.

20 Provincial Berths available.
96 teams divided by 20 berths = 4.8 teams
PCSL 16 ~ 4.8 teams = 3.33
VISL 20 ~ 4.8 = 4.16
FVSL 28 ~ 4.8 = 5.83
VMSL 32 ~ 4.8 = 6.66 berths per A forms.(no CAT)
round off
PCSL 3
VISL 4
FVSL 6
VMSL 7 no CAT.
pcsl gives 1 spot to visl and 1 spot to vmsl.(because they only want 1 spot)
So according to A forms it should be.
PCSL 1
VISL 5
FVSL 6
VMSL 8

or
116 teams ~ by 20 berths = 5.8
PCSL 16 ~ 5.8 = 2.75
VISL 20 ~ 5.8 = 3.44
FVSL 28 ~ 5.8 = 4.82
VMSL 52 ~ 5.8 = 8.96 berths per A forms(with CAT)

PCSL 3
VISL 3
FVSL 5
VMSL 9 with cat.
pcsl giveing both berths to visl and as we are today. 1,5,5,9

Remember the FVSL usually has and will have again next season 30 A form teams.
Important because it will bring the thier numbers up enough to justify(more so) thier 6th spot which they have ALREADY earned according to the math.

Now some food for thought.
Some people believe that the better league or teams with past history should be given special treatment as they do in Champions league in Europe.
Well my thoughts on that are..we are not Professional and all pay the same amount of money. If the spots are not given out in an equal manner as set forth like the A form registration rule...Then leagues given special treatment should have to pay for it.
Just because a team or league has done well before does not mean they will do well again ,just ask Sporting. We are all paying the same registration fees and should be treated the same or based on how many we have signed to these forms.
As you can see by the Math..with the CAT system and the extra A form registrations. It is totaly fair to give the VMSL the 9 spots into the Provincials they have now.
But take away those A forms and it becomes not fair. Even by 1 or 2 spots...its still not fair...And it should be as we are all paying the same fees..
More food for ya.
According to BCSA..( I called) if any new league was to form ,minimum 4 teams, and paid and registered on A forms they would automatically qualify for 1 spot in the Provincials . Weather they were good or not. As long as they paid thier dues.$$.
Which is interesting. because they will have no history. Where would thier spot come from...The VMSL or VISL?. Both have made thier mark the past few years. Both have tradition. Both would never just wave a flag and give up thier spot. I would guess it would come down to A Forms.
As it should be. Do the Math every year and be fair.
Simple as that.
We all pay the same registration fee so the League with the most A form players who pays the most should get the most berths.

 

[Polska]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y68m23x4Nc"]YouTube- The Cranberries- Zombie[/ame]

 

[italian_stallion21]

I had put an idea forward to the FVSL in regard to restructuring D1 to keep it competitive and maintain all the A forms required to keep our provincial spots as well, and was told that it didn't matter how many teams were signed to A forms, but they were going to keep it the same. No reason given (or asked for) as to why A forms didn't matter anymore but that's what I was told.

 

[robino]

I have said it somewhere earlier...The only FAIR thing to do is:

Prem DIV: 14 teams(all +punjab,akal and olym/serbia)
Div 1: 14 teams (3,4,5,6 place teams from DIV 1A+B+norvan+olym/serb+all 3 division winners from DIV 2 + winner of 7thplace teams DIV1AandB)
Div 2: 3 divisions of 10 teams each.

Next year 3 Prem teams go down - one goes up from Div 1. It makes 12 team Division. Div 1 - 3 teams go down to Div 2,while one Prem team. 3 teams from DIV 2 up. Still 14 team division.

 

[ghouse]

I had put an idea forward to the FVSL in regard to restructuring D1 to keep it competitive and maintain all the A forms required to keep our provincial spots as well, and was told that it didn't matter how many teams were signed to A forms, but they were going to keep it the same. No reason given (or asked for) as to why A forms didn't matter anymore but that's what I was told.

It was because of the BCPL..All 10/12 teams made the provincials with the addition of some of the other Premier teams.
So It didnt matter at the time..It looks like it will again for next year.

The FVSL Div 1 is being restructured as we speak .
Looks like 2 -10 team divisions for next year.
Top team from each division will playoff for 10th Premer spot and loser will playoff vs 9th place Premier team for the other promotion spot.
2 teams from each division will be religated to the new 4 -10 team div 2. and they will send 1 team up from each division.

 

[robino]

GHOUSE, dont like the idea which FVSL is moving to. IMO, any team that wins any Divion (be that 1, 2 or 3), should be automatically promoted to the higher. The toughest thing to do is to win a division. In a playoff game anything can happen, all the hard work can go to a waste because of one game. Why not have 2 Div. winners go up, and 9, 10 Prem team come down. Better yet, cut down DIV 1 from 20 teams to 12.

 

[ghouse]

Im just the messanger with my 2 votes(2 teams).
I see your point for sure. It makes sense.
I think the reasoning behind this is to really make sure the team moveing up is worthy of Premier.
If the team winning the division cant win 1 of 2 playoff games...Maybe they shouldnt be in Pemier. Maybe the Div 1 they are/were in is weaker than the other Div 1.
I like both Ideas...But Because I have a team in Premier I will vote for the first Idea because I obviously want to make it as hard as possable to be religated. (being honest)