BCSPL- Pros/Cons/Other Sports

[Dude]

Thanks Regs.

This is of interest to me only as a bystander. My little Dudedette is more of the "play in house for fun and friends" than an ambitious future MLS star. She has the skills, but is missing any sort of mean / ultra-competitive side to play at a higher level. Though I'm glad she didn't inherit my feet, I did not pass along my competitiveness and a**hole-ness to her.

When this thing started, we all sort of said, "Let's see what it's like in a couple of years". Well, it's been three now...how's it working?

Rhetorical question...seems to me it's not.

Why? is it because of the dough that needs to be shelled out? Can it be said the HPL franchises are getting the best players in the area at their age level?

 

[Ballbaby]

It is what it is everyone. There are many success stories with BCSPL. Can't dwell solely on the negative aspects, but definitely can't ignore them either. If girl's teams are folding, have to figure out why. My girl's team is thriving. Others are not. Many girls think they are elite, but when you present to them what "elite" is, they don't like it. They are happy to be in a more social setting, with friends and such. I don't care. Here is what an elite environment is. I am consistent with that and will never stray. You like it, get on board and come for the ride. You don't, get off. If the driver has to be changed because too many don't like the ride, then cool! You will have saved me a lot of energy and stress. But my girls love the environment. Why? People can search that answer for themselves. I have put myself out there to be analyzed always.

BCSPL has been critical for the local soccer environment. Philosophically, I can't disagree with this path. It's been critical in that it has revealed many of the deficiencies in our soccer community, whether it's poor coaching, poor administration, poor players, poor facilities etc. It's also revealed the good coaching, good administration, good players, good facilities etc. It's presenting things as they are and drawing reactions. But the path is correct. The key is to get the right people on that path. There are a lot of people and a a few side trails that still inhibit getting to the final destination. That comment is relevant to all the entities involved. CSA, CAPS, BCSA, BCSPL, Districts, Clubs..... Everyone!

So you call yourself a BCSPL coach with a CSA A licence. Well, the focus is on you. The responsibility that comes with that is large. People are analyzing and making conclusions. If you are a BCSPL coach with limited credentials, people are watching you and making conclusions. If you are a metro coach and hoarding players from BCSPL, people are watching you and making conclusions. If you are a metro coach with good success (however that is determined) and not a BCSPL coach, one would question why? It could be for noble reasons, or it could be for "not-so-noble". If you are a TD in charge of an entire Club as well as a BCSPL component, people are watching you and making conclusions. You call yourself a BCSPL franchise. Well, the focus is on you. You have to function amongst naysayers, a community offering other competitive sports, limited facilities, district board members with limited soccer passion and sophistication. The strong will survive. The weak will fail. We have already seen it haven't we? At least no one is being sheltered or camouflaged as was prevalent in pre-BCSPL.

The path is clear but still convoluted. It's like watching "The Walking Dead". All sorts still plodding along.

One thing is clear. The standard of play and coaching is up. Most of players are playing at the appropriate levels they should be. The boys side is healthy. The girl's side is "finding" itself. There has never been a good emphasis of good coaching on the girls side from young ages, so that will take time.

I still state that if a player wants to thrive in this game, they better have the passion to get as many touches on that ball, uninhibited touches, away from structured BCSPL type play, for us to reap the rewards. BCSPL or not, that just ain't happening like it used to years ago.

Most other provinces are/will be adapting the BCSPL structure. They are looking and liking our model, learning from our mistakes and on we go. Personally, I just do my part to the best of my ability and hope others do theirs. Every once in awhile, I have to plod along with "The Walking Dead" to guide a few along.

 

[utah]

Well said Balls.
I still like and support this model. There needs to be a path for players.
Now hopefully this new soccer model that the CSA has come up with will help creat a Canadian Pro/Semi Pro league.

 

[Colin Elmes]

It is what it is everyone. There are many success stories with BCSPL. Can't dwell solely on the negative aspects, but definitely can't ignore them either. If girl's teams are folding, have to figure out why. My girl's team is thriving. Others are not. Many girls think they are elite, but when you present to them what "elite" is, they don't like it. They are happy to be in a more social setting, with friends and such. I don't care. Here is what an elite environment is. I am consistent with that and will never stray. You like it, get on board and come for the ride. You don't, get off. If the driver has to be changed because too many don't like the ride, then cool! You will have saved me a lot of energy and stress. But my girls love the environment. Why? People can search that answer for themselves. I have put myself out there to be analyzed always.

BCSPL has been critical for the local soccer environment. Philosophically, I can't disagree with this path. It's been critical in that it has revealed many of the deficiencies in our soccer community, whether it's poor coaching, poor administration, poor players, poor facilities etc. It's also revealed the good coaching, good administration, good players, good facilities etc. It's presenting things as they are and drawing reactions. But the path is correct. The key is to get the right people on that path. There are a lot of people and a a few side trails that still inhibit getting to the final destination. That comment is relevant to all the entities involved. CSA, CAPS, BCSA, BCSPL, Districts, Clubs..... Everyone!

So you call yourself a BCSPL coach with a CSA A licence. Well, the focus is on you. The responsibility that comes with that is large. People are analyzing and making conclusions. If you are a BCSPL coach with limited credentials, people are watching you and making conclusions. If you are a metro coach and hoarding players from BCSPL, people are watching you and making conclusions. If you are a metro coach with good success (however that is determined) and not a BCSPL coach, one would question why? It could be for noble reasons, or it could be for "not-so-noble". If you are a TD in charge of an entire Club as well as a BCSPL component, people are watching you and making conclusions. You call yourself a BCSPL franchise. Well, the focus is on you. You have to function amongst naysayers, a community offering other competitive sports, limited facilities, district board members with limited soccer passion and sophistication. The strong will survive. The weak will fail. We have already seen it haven't we? At least no one is being sheltered or camouflaged as was prevalent in pre-BCSPL.

The path is clear but still convoluted. It's like watching "The Walking Dead". All sorts still plodding along.

One thing is clear. The standard of play and coaching is up. Most of players are playing at the appropriate levels they should be. The boys side is healthy. The girl's side is "finding" itself. There has never been a good emphasis of good coaching on the girls side from young ages, so that will take time.

I still state that if a player wants to thrive in this game, they better have the passion to get as many touches on that ball, uninhibited touches, away from structured BCSPL type play, for us to reap the rewards. BCSPL or not, that just ain't happening like it used to years ago.

Most other provinces are/will be adapting the BCSPL structure. They are looking and liking our model, learning from our mistakes and on we go. Personally, I just do my part to the best of my ability and hope others do theirs. Every once in awhile, I have to plod along with "The Walking Dead" to guide a few along.

All good Spiro. It really is about what a player does when no one is watching from a player development perspective. Keep up the good work on your side of the ledger.

 

[Gurps]

BCPL, HPL, JBN, Metro, u15,Silver, Gold, Yellow, ACBC, blah blah blah.

Whatever happened to putting down some cones, throwing in the ball, and letting kids play, allowing them to learn from their mistakes, and to be creative. Instead you have all these coaches(some with real and some with fake accents) running drills they learned online for hours on end so they can play kick and run and beat the other team and go home feeling good. Great for development, as our current ranking shows.

Too bad we didn't have a local program for kids from age 5 to 10 ish. It would entail showing up three times a week to a field, setting up the cones and having a scrimmage every time for kids in the same age groups(U 5 vs U5, U 6 vs U 6 etc). The teams would be mixed up every time, and the emphasis would be just to play and learn a few basics such as how to shoot the ball properly etc but the main focus would be just to play. Bet the cost of said program would be quite low....

 

[trece verde]

Bet the cost of said program would be quite low

We're working on it...

 

[Dude]

Balls,

The question wasn't, "Is this the right path", the question was, "Is it working?"

Is it? Be honest.

And if not, what are the major flaws? I'll take a stab...you elude to commitment being the main issue...Sussie isn't comitted to being "Elite". Is the truth closer to the fact that the cost to be included in the "Elite" just doesn't make sense? Are parents saying, "For x, I have to commit HOW MUCH more time? Is it worth it?"?

I think the answer is obvious...and that is before you get around to all the famillies who simply can't afford to be eite.

The model of increased pay the higher you go makes NO SENSE, never has. This is a huge flaw in the system...before one even gets around to coaching, good or bad, fake accent or not (we have a fake accent coach in the club, it's comical). You could see this being a major hurdle coming 4 years ago!

Anyhow, can anyone remind me again what the deffinition of insanity is?

 

[utah]

The truth is, if these players had a path to flow into...parents would pay even more.

 

[ThiKu]

Let's be honest. Our first mistake is thinking BCSPL is "elite."

This country has very very very far to go.

Dude's post is exactly correct.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Good stuff, Gentlemen. I will be blunt here as I like to be when it comes to this. Is the BCSPL any different than the Metro Level of a few years ago but with NO boundaries as to where players could play? Is it safe to say that 70 - 80% of the coaches who are coaching in the BCSPL coached at the metro level when there were boundaries?

More importantly, when are these coaches in the HPL going to start using onside kicks and wearing costumes to relax the kids?

 

[Dude]

The truth is, if these players had a path to flow into...parents would pay even more.

Of course they would, you big dumb bag of dicks. They are the same parents shelling out now, of course they'll pay more at this point chassing the dream.

I'm referring to all the parents that refuse to shell out, because either:

A) They can't afford it (vast majority, IMO...I think there is a boatload of talent being overlooked because the costs to be "Elite" are so damn high).
B) They can afford but have justified not spending the extra money after doing a cost / benefit analysis (i.e.: I pay how much, and for that extra costs, my kid is now required to spend the whole summer playing, instead of enjoying a summer vacation?)
C) They refuse to pay the extra, because they can see through the smoke-screen.

If you add in the players / parents that are currently involved (D), you could actually make a four way pie chart. My argument is that the BCPL is currently not getting the cream of the crop of players due to either A, B, or C, with the majority actually falling into A. The last scenario, D, would actually be a minority if you took all the players that are capable of playing at that level.

So, my argument here is this: yes, you have a pathway now, but you do not have the most competitive environment- both for selection, and competitive play. Yes, you are getting some of the "Elites" that would make it under all circumstances, but you are missing out on a lot of talent as well.

Yes, there are other factors...coaches who hoard players, for example. Egos, certainly. But, nobody can argue that under the current model, the BCPL has set itself up for the best possible successful result. To me, that was and is the biggest downfall. In any plan- business, sports, home life, whatever- there should be every effort to set the plan up for success. The money issue...I saw this going in as being the biggest barrier. It's like a big domino that leads to other very valid reasons for not participating. Once that big domino falls- the player cost domino- it hits so many other logical excuses as to why a family will bypass the BCPL rather than participate.

So, Balls…I acknowledge everything you’ve written, and you are not wrong. Your track record obviously speaks for itself as well. I’d send any player your way for great coaching and guidance in their playing career. In fact, if I could get my tongue any further up your ass, I surely would. That being said, in your brilliantly written defense of the BCPL, you deftly avoided the question: “Is it working?”

(Dislodge tongue)

Now fcuk off, I’m too busy for this.

 

[Dude]

Let's be honest. Our first mistake is thinking BCSPL is "elite."

This country has very very very far to go.

Dude's post is exactly correct.

This man is the smartest person in this thread.

 

[ThiKu]

Good stuff, Gentlemen. I will be blunt here as I like to be when it comes to this. Is the BCSPL any different than the Metro Level of a few years ago but with NO boundaries as to where players could play? Is it safe to say that 70 - 80% of the coaches who are coaching in the BCSPL coached at the metro level when there were boundaries?

More importantly, when are these coaches in the HPL going to start using onside kicks and wearing costumes to relax the kids?

When did Metro have no boundaries? Even when I played metro in the 90's there was a boundary rule - but it was limited to 6-8 teams, and the standard was quite high in my opinion.

 

[ThiKu]

Of course they would, you big dumb bag of dicks. They are the same parents shelling out now, of course they'll pay more at this point chassing the dream.

I'm referring to all the parents that refuse to shell out, because either:

A) They can't afford it (vast majority, IMO...I think there is a boatload of talent being overlooked because the costs to be "Elite" are so damn high).
B) They can afford but have justified not spending the extra money after doing a cost / benefit analysis (i.e.: I pay how much, and for that extra costs, my kid is now required to spend the whole summer playing, instead of enjoying a summer vacation?)
C) They refuse to pay the extra, because they can see through the smoke-screen.

If you add in the players / parents that are currently involved (D), you could actually make a four way pie chart. My argument is that the BCPL is currently not getting the cream of the crop of players due to either A, B, or C, with the majority actually falling into A. The last scenario, D, would actually be a minority if you took all the players that are capable of playing at that level.

So, my argument here is this: yes, you have a pathway now, but you do not have the most competitive environment- both for selection, and competitive play. Yes, you are getting some of the "Elites" that would make it under all circumstances, but you are missing out on a lot of talent as well.

Yes, there are other factors...coaches who hoard players, for example. Egos, certainly. But, nobody can argue that under the current model, the BCPL has set itself up for the best possible successful result. To me, that was and is the biggest downfall. In any plan- business, sports, home life, whatever- there should be every effort to set the plan up for success. The money issue...I saw this going in as being the biggest barrier. It's like a big domino that leads to other very valid reasons for not participating. Once that big domino falls- the player cost domino- it hits so many other logical excuses as to why a family will bypass the BCPL rather than participate.

So, Balls…I acknowledge everything you’ve written, and you are not wrong. Your track record obviously speaks for itself as well. I’d send any player your way for great coaching and guidance in their playing career. In fact, if I could get my tongue any further up your ass, I surely would. That being said, in your brilliantly written defense of the BCPL, you deftly avoided the question: “Is it working?”

(Dislodge tongue)

Now fcuk off, I’m too busy for this.

A-B-C-D are all accurate. A being a major issue, but more than that a lot of the issues is time commitment. Drive-time, for example. There is no perfect solution - not as long as everything in sport here is pay to play. But without a moneybags funding it, and getting compensation fees for players moving on to professional and/or national teams as well as corporate/government funding it will always be pay to play.

 

[Dude]

A-B-C-D are all accurate. A being a major issue, but more than that a lot of the issues is time commitment. Drive-time, for example. There is no perfect solution - not as long as everything in sport here is pay to play. But without a moneybags funding it, and getting compensation fees for players moving on to professional and/or national teams as well as corporate/government funding it will always be pay to play.

Totally get it. I can completely associate w/ pay-to-play. Through I don't have kids in high level soccer, they are competing at high levels in other sports, and those sports follow the same pay-for-play model. On our side, we very carefully weigh the time commitment, travel commitment, and overall benefit to the cost. Lucky for us, we can afford it, but I also know of many other families that are in the same sports that don't end up at all the same races / competitions because the cost is too high...kids that would otherwise contend. That also being said, we are on the cusp of pulling back in favour of lifestyle choices. I.e.: more skiing, and family vacations.

That being said, I still question if there isn't a way to subsidize this funding to a large extent. What do the books at some of these big clubs (SU, CFM, etc.) show in terms of revenues, and could more not be reinvested back into BCPL funding? Also, couldn't the clubs get a bit creative w/ their funding into the franchises, with shared coaching duties? I dunno, just throwing darts...but to me, if I see that there is a problem with the current system, and I'm in a position to effect change, I look to ways to fix the problem, not just continue down the same unsuccessful path.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

When did Metro have no boundaries? Even when I played metro in the 90's there was a boundary rule - but it was limited to 6-8 teams, and the standard was quite high in my opinion.

Yes, that's my point.......there was a max 3 players from out of district when I coached 4 years ago.....or 5 or something. My point is that things aren't that much different now except for bank accounts.

 

[Canucks4Ever]

Let's be honest. Our first mistake is thinking BCSPL is "elite."

This country has very very very far to go.

Dude's post is exactly correct.

Jumping in a little late here so apologies if I'm covering anything that's already been discussed...

Further to this point it is interesting to see just how quickly the HPL has descended from a "future-stars development" league, to a cliquey "winning-is-everything" glorified Metro league.

While some aspects of HPL have been promising (such as the insisting on coaches being at least B-National certified), far too often it comes to a simple matter of "status" playing in HPL. A league that was suppose to unite the top level players throughout the entire Province and give them the opportunity to grow and develop has been woefully bogged down by our typical mistake of using winning as a metric for success. A league that was suppose to finally give teams and players from the Interior and the Island a chance to compete on a regular basis with teams from the Lower Mainland is know a league dominated by politics and parents.

As someone who has been involved, I have to say that parents are 90% of the problem. They want their kid on a winning team, and a team where he/she is a star and a team where the coach does what's best for their son/daughter. Therefore, instead of focussing on their child's development and his/her wants or needs (and perhaps admitting to themselves that maybe their son/daughter is NOT the caliber of "elite") they drag kids from club to club looking for a "winning environment".

Do I think that HPL is better than the Metro set-up from the previous decades (costs aside), yes probably. But there is plenty of room both technically and administratively for improvement. It would be a mistake for anyone to try and fight for the set-up we have currently and to try and suggest it is perfect.

Last point, with the development of a National Curriculum underway, focusing on developing talent to make and keep Canada competitive at the senior international level (both men's and women's), it will be interesting to see where we are in a year or two with HPL. Certainly changes are coming. The CSA has no ability to mandate that the Provincial associations adopt their curriculum (a completely separate topic about that systemic flaw...), but they know this so they are planning on partnering with other organizations to deliver the curriculum (ie Whitecaps, Edmonton FC, Ottawa Fury, Montreal Impact etc.) regionally if the Provincial Association refuse to get on board. So we will have to wait and see how that affects the balance of talent and enrollment in the BCSPL if BC Soccer does not adopt the National Curriculum and instead the Whitecaps or some other organization with the resources to deliver the curriculum is where "elite" players are being funnelled.

 

[Regs]

While some aspects of HPL have been promising (such as the insisting on coaches being at least B-National certified)

Is there a phase-in for this criteria? Also, is it B-National or B-Provincial?

 

[Canucks4Ever]

Is there a phase-in for this criteria? Also, is it B-National or B-Provincial?

B National. The phase-in period was last season as far as I was told. As of February 2014 it was supposed to be mandatory.

That's not to say though that some "creative" clubs might not list the head coach of a team as someone with a National-B License and then leave the day to day running's to someone less credentialed...

 

[Regs]

I can't see how they can enforce this so "early" in the game, so-to-speak ... what's the criteria for taking the exam/course?