Canada MNT: Road to 2018

[Regs]

 

[Soccer Coach]

Eerrrrr!!!
YES
32 teams.
24 teams.
Do the math.
How many teams qualified from CONCACAF then & now?
You've got to be kidding.
If your not, your a waste of time responding to.
Either sober up, or get a grip man.

On my God, why is it so difficult to understand that the quality of opposition for Canada has improved?
It is not the quantity.
Really in 1986, do you think that you would have seen Costa Rica eliminating Italy and England, and then Mexico tying with Brazil in a group stage, and then the USA playing head to head with the likes of Germany, Portugal, and Belgium? No way.
The level of Concacaf in 1986 is not even close to the current level, YOU know this is true, this is why you are abandoning the discussion.

cheers,
ps, as for Dezza, in case you did not now the World Cup was hosted in Mexico, and they benefited of the host effect, luck and a few other assistances to do well. No way the level of Concacaf in 1986 is the same as the level of 2014 World Cup.

 

[Jigsaw]

On my God, why is it so difficult to understand that the quality of opposition for Canada has improved?
It is not the quantity.
Really in 1986, do you think that you would have seen Costa Rica eliminating Italy and England, and then Mexico tying with Brazil in a group stage, and then the USA playing head to head with the likes of Germany, Portugal, and Belgium? No way.
The level of Concacaf in 1986 is not even close to the current level, YOU know this is true, this is why you are abandoning the discussion.

cheers,
ps, as for Dezza, in case you did not now the World Cup was hosted in Mexico, and they benefited of the host effect, luck and a few other assistances to do well. No way the level of Concacaf in 1986 is the same as the level of 2014 World Cup.

Last reply.
Promise.

Do you have any experience in the game of soccer?
I'm trying to work out if you have any credibility.
I'm having massive doubts.
There are lots of people who have plenty to say, but have absolutely no idea of what they are talking about.
If it were that simple for "armchair coaches" to solve the problems, there would be many of them earning a living in the game.
Are you earning a living in soccer? Or, are you just another loudmouth?

 

[Soccer Coach]

Last reply.
Promise.

Do you have any experience in the game of soccer?
I'm trying to work out if you have any credibility.
I'm having massive doubts.
There are lots of people who have plenty to say, but have absolutely no idea of what they are talking about.
If it were that simple for "armchair coaches" to solve the problems, there would be many of them earning a living in the game.
Are you earning a living in soccer? Or, are you just another loudmouth?

Oh... I see... I did not see you as one of those guys who would resort to add hominem arguments, but I see that you can not resist it when confronted with the evidence. Concentrate on the evidence and not the person.

You know, I would be a bit embarrassed if I would be earning a living in soccer and at the same time I would be stating that Concacaf teams in 1986 were comparable to Concacaf teams in 2014-18.
It is a bit of problem having a person stating such ignorant comments and them been in charge of training people.

 

[Ballbaby]

Last reply.
Promise.

Do you have any experience in the game of soccer?
I'm trying to work out if you have any credibility.
I'm having massive doubts.
There are lots of people who have plenty to say, but have absolutely no idea of what they are talking about.
If it were that simple for "armchair coaches" to solve the problems, there would be many of them earning a living in the game.
Are you earning a living in soccer? Or, are you just another loudmouth?

I think we need to qualify "earning a living" Jigsaw. That's one thing I believe has lead us astray. We have many "earning a living" in the game right now that maybe shouldn't be. Unfortunately, more credentials than that are need for me to buy in.

I do think he was born in South America, so he already has the advantage of higher intellect in football, and all human related issues for that matter. He also lives outside of the valley and coaches in the metropolis of Vancouver. More credibility.

But I will state he is well spoken and has some good insight. I choose to filter his pompous and arrogant approach and I always feel good about myself after posting in a venting style. So he serves a purpose.

 

[cascadesoccer]

Not to mention his vast collection of YouTube videos, is somewhat impressive.

 

[Jigsaw]

Oh... I see... I did not see you as one of those guys who would resort to add hominem arguments, but I see that you can not resist it when confronted with the evidence. Concentrate on the evidence and not the person.

You know, I would be a bit embarrassed if I would be earning a living in soccer and at the same time I would be stating that Concacaf teams in 1986 were comparable to Concacaf teams in 2014-18.
It is a bit of problem having a person stating such ignorant comments and them been in charge of training people.

So, you know sweet FA.
Thought so. Bye.

 

[Soccer Coach]

So, you know sweet FA.
Thought so. Bye.

I am not sure what you mean by the expression. There is really no need to get a nose bent just because I willing to question your wisdom. Just to please @cascadesoccer, I include a video of Canada in 1985 and their goal against Costa Rica. It confirms that Canada's strategy was pretty much sit back, launch long balls and/or take advantage of set pieces or mistakes from the other teams. It is really not like those guys were playing great soccer and outplaying the opposition. They were mainly defending and then sending long balls and looking for goals in corner kicks.
It is not disrespect to those players. I remember those games, so I can not help it when people try to idealize the past.
I am not happy that Canada got eliminated. I want that we go to the World Cup and that Canada plays better.
Being complacent and polyanna about the way we think and guide our players does not help at all. Thats all.

 

[Stringer]

Do you feel insulted again? No one's listening to your nonsense, are you going to cry foul?

 

[Dude]

Refusing to accept and partake in the discourse that leads and covers this fiasco. You know having a ranking just below North Korea is not something that makes me proud. Yes, 100th sounds good, but thats about it.
View attachment 15814
What do you want me to do? Stand up and clap and join with enthusiasm the crowds in the red square. Blindly following the collective delusions that soothe and mask the reality that we live in.

You know people like @Dude and others here made me think that I am in North Korea. That I should be BLINDLY cheerleading for a national program or else....No tolerance for diversity of thought of speech.

We have little control in the macro aspects of the problem. We can not make the CSA to hire coaches for the national teams who have successfully qualified teams to the HEX, make youth clubs to send their teams to compete regularly to Mexico/Central America/Caribe, promote non-interfered small sided games and technical development and youth level.
It is so simple, yet there is no political or institutional desire to do it.

However, each of us can reflect on the situation and not use the scapegoat of a lack of professional league. That is an easy out. We can also question the myths of the past rather than just perpetuating them.

I have promised myself I wouldn’t do this, but here we go…

I have posted multiple times, and wrote to you in private, I agree with 90% of what you say. 90%! There are some areas where you and I disagree, and those areas are:

1. You feel that our grassroots system is completely backwards, I disagree. Our results up to a certain age level prove, year after year, that the best of our youth compete with the best of the rest of the world on the world scale.
   
   
2. I have tied my wagon to the fact we have a broken pathway system, meaning, once our best boys hit the age of 16, there is nowhere to go, because the Canadian passport kills their chances.
   
   
3. I and others have tried to explain point 2 above to you several times. It’s the business of football and world politics that stop our boys in their tracks. Import restrictions, and foreign work permit restrictions prevent all but our very best from making a career overseas. This, more than any other reason, is the main factor in our best going overseas then coming home w/ their tail between their legs, only to play university, or the local men’s leagues.
   
   
4. Point 3 above and your absolute inability to understand this factor lead me to believe you are in fact, an idiot. Point 3 above and your absolute inability to understand this factor lead me to believe you are in fact, an idiot. Point 3 above and your absolute inability to understand this factor lead me to believe you are in fact, an idiot.
   
   
5. Repeat point 4 above three times. That will now be a total of 9 times repeated, I hope it sinks in.
   
   
6. Canada needs to address our issues on both ends: on the grassroots level, I do believe we need a higher focus on technical development, and the overall education of football. Not just CONCACAF style, but all styles. The more education, the better. We also need a greater focus on bringing players back to coach. Difficult, when, the volunteer system and bureaucracy only serves to discourage former players from returning to coach.
   
   
7. On the other end, we need our own domestic professional league, complete w/ our own import restrictions, complete w/ a pay grade that is high enough to encourage young footballers to make footballing as a career choice when they are young.
   
   
8. We need a tail to nose pathway system. Right now, we are missing the nose. How you fail to see this as a major problem is beyond me, and thus, I feel you are both completely stubborn, and / or dumb as a bag of hammers.
   
   
9. I 100% agree with your assessment of our overall training at grassroots. Overall, it’s lacking. Overall, we have a huge problem there. That doesn’t mean there aren’t still good coaches and good people within.
   
   
10. I also agree that, in order to qualify for the WC through CONCACAF, we need to expose our kids and National team to more CONCACAF matches, including travel for tourneys. This needs to be a staple, and start early, so as to build the educational base on how to compete at that level. I thought this was a very good point, credit due. You are still an idiot. You are still an idiot. You are still an idiot.
    
    
11. Your point: “It is so simple, yet there is no political or institutional desire to do it.” Again, you obviously don’t take the time to read what has been stated here. This is BY FAR the #1 beef we as coaches have with the current system! By far! On this I 100% agree with you, and I’m sure most experienced, qualified coaches would too! We are infinitely frustrated with the political system holding us back.
    
    
12. Another point you made: “Now you have better soccer (relative) from USA, Mexico, Panama, Costa Rica, Honduras, Jamaica, Trinidad, Guatemala, and Cuba and a couple of two more little islands, . This leaves Canada ranked about 10th. This is what YOU guys do not see. The rest of the region has improved a lot.” This was, obviously, written by the other 1/3 of your persona, not the actual soccer coach, probably the spoiled brat who pays his div. 2 players to play for you. Anyhow…how is it that you think we don’t understand this? Most of us have watched the degradation of our National team over a 35 year spell! We’ve grown up as footballers while we watched the National programs fall apart around us, and our only domestic league disintegrate. The truth is, it’s very frustrating being a footballer in this country, because we are constantly swimming upstream. My generation has had to do the most swimming upstream. Guys like Geoff Aunger. Carlo Corrazin, Alex Bunburry, Dom Mobilio (RIP), John Catliff, Paul Dolan, by all rights and by the level they played and competed at, deserved to have fulfilling careers overseas! Wrong passport. But for the most part, they made a go of it, making a career of it in the lower European and English divisions while also serving their country for international play, on a team that would cheap out, fly them coach, put them up in shitty hotels, etc. The guys you now see at the top level deserve every bit and more praise because they’ve had to make careers of it swimming upstream. If you can’t see how much more difficult it is for Canadians to make a career out of this game, you are truly blind.

Here’s where you fall off the rails with me: I 100% disagree with your assertion that there aren’t ANY good people at the grassroots level. You couldn’t be any more incorrect on that front; we have some very good coaches doing very good things with players that never get recognized. Meanwhile, we have both an uneducated public that is critical of a system they have no clue about, and could never fathom the challenges, and people like you- foreigners from footballing first cultures that show up here, and treat us like country bumpkins that have never seen a football. You fixate on one very small aspect of my coaching- the fact I rewarded little, house level playing girls with ice cream for being able to complete technical moves in games. When they were 6, 7, and 8 years old. Again, playing house. You fixate on this as a MAJOR PROBLEM with the whole system! I have to ask, are you mad?

So, of ALL the issues we’ve “discussed” on this forum, you and I slightly disagree on a couple of things, if we can look at this completely analytically. With anyone else, I could sit down with a person who disagrees with me on a philosophical issue, and be open to discussion, so far as opening my mind and eyes to their point of view. Not you. The real problem here in this discussion isn’t us, it’s you and your condescending nature, and absolute refusal to believe and understand there are some pretty fcuking smart and good coaches on this forum where you too could actually learn something. You seem to think we haven’t been around the game our whole lives, and haven’t picked up a few things along the way. And, you have no idea the absolute high level of quality there is here (not me, others), and how truly insulting you are to them. These are people that could actually help you on your path, but you’ve come here and burned bridges. You asked me to come out and burry the hatchet…do you think I’d ever have a coffee with you? After what you’ve written? The reality is, I would never be able to look you in the eye with any respect. Thus, I could never have a cordial conversation w/ you.

The real humor in this, and truth is, I know this for a fact that the actual soccer coach 1/3 of the “Soccer Coach” persona can’t actually play worth a damn. Never mind playing at the highest levels locally, you’d be run off the pitch in a div. 2 masters league game. You would never survive either on the pitch, or in the change room. You would never have the respect of your teammates, and the reality is, you don’t have the respect of the adults you “coach”, because you can’t play yourself, and your top players are paid to play by the benevolent other 1/3 of your “Persona”. Truth hurts.

 

[Dude]

So good...

 

[akslop]

Are you earning a living in soccer? Or, are you just another loudmouth?

Is Both an option? He is Rumored to be the Highest paid coach in VMSL Div 2.

 

[Dude]

Ummm...div 1 now? Remember, gift promotion? And remember, they are the defending (B Cup) Champions. Serious pedigree.

 

[Jigsaw]

I have promised myself I wouldn’t do this, but here we go…

I have posted multiple times, and wrote to you in private, I agree with 90% of what you say. 90%! There are some areas where you and I disagree, and those two areas are:

1. You feel that our grassroots system is completely backwards, I disagree. Our results up to a certain age level prove, year after year, that the best of our youth compete with the best of the rest of the world on the world scale.
   
   
2. I have tied my wagon to the fact we have a broken pathway system, meaning, once our best boys hit the age of 16, there is nowhere to go, because the Canadian passport kills their chances.
   
   
3. I and others have tried to explain point 2 above to you several times. It’s the business of football and world politics that stop our boys in their tracks. Import restrictions, and foreign work permit restrictions prevent all but our very best from making a career overseas. This, more than any other reason, is the main factor in our best going overseas then coming home w/ their tail between their legs, only to play university, or the local men’s leagues.
   
   
4. Point 3 above and your absolute inability to understand this factor lead me to believe you are in fact, an idiot. Point 3 above and your absolute inability to understand this factor lead me to believe you are in fact, an idiot. Point 3 above and your absolute inability to understand this factor lead me to believe you are in fact, an idiot.
   
   
5. Repeat point 4 above three times. That will now be a total of 9 times repeated, I hope it sinks in.
   
   
6. Canada needs to address our issues on both ends: on the grassroots level, I do believe we need a higher focus on technical development, and the overall education of football. Not just CONCACAF style, but all styles. The more education, the better. We also need a greater focus on bringing players back to coach. Difficult, when, the volunteer system and bureaucracy only serves to discourage former players from returning to coach.
   
   
7. On the other end, we need our own domestic professional league, complete w/ our own import restrictions, complete w/ a pay grade that is high enough to encourage young footballers to make footballing as a career choice when they are young.
   
   
8. We need a tail to nose pathway system. Right now, we are missing the nose. How you fail to see this as a major problem is beyond me, and thus, I feel you are both completely stubborn, and / or dumb as a bag of hammers.
   
   
9. I 100% agree with your assessment of our overall training at grassroots. Overall, it’s lacking. Overall, we have a huge problem there. That doesn’t mean there aren’t still good coaches and good people within.
   
   
10. I also agree that, in order to qualify for the WC through CONCACAF, we need to expose our kids and National team to more CONCACAF matches, including travel for tourneys. This needs to be a staple, and start early, so as to build the educational base on how to compete at that level. I thought this was a very good point, credit due. You are still an idiot. You are still an idiot. You are still an idiot.
    
    
11. Your point: “It is so simple, yet there is no political or institutional desire to do it.” Again, you obviously don’t take the time to read what has been stated here. This is BY FAR the #1 beef we as coaches have with the current system! By far! On this I 100% agree with you, and I’m sure most experienced, qualified coaches would too! We are infinitely frustrated with the political system holding us back.
    
    
12. Another point you made: “Now you have better soccer (relative) from USA, Mexico, Panama, Costa Rica, Honduras, Jamaica, Trinidad, Guatemala, and Cuba and a couple of two more little islands, . This leaves Canada ranked about 10th. This is what YOU guys do not see. The rest of the region has improved a lot.” This was, obviously, written by the other 1/3 of your persona, not the actual soccer coach, probably the spoiled brat who pays his div. 2 players to play for you. Anyhow…how is it that you think we don’t understand this? Most of us have watched the degradation of our National team over a 35 year spell! We’ve grown up as footballers while we watched the National programs fall apart around us, and our only domestic league disintegrate. The truth is, it’s very frustrating being a footballer in this country, because we are constantly swimming upstream. My generation has had to do the most swimming upstream. Guys like Geoff Aunger. Carlo Corrazin, Alex Bunburry, Dom Mobilio (RIP), John Catliff, Paul Dolan, by all rights and by the level they played and competed at, deserved to have fulfilling careers overseas! Wrong passport. But for the most part, they made a go of it, making a career of it in the lower European and English divisions while also serving their country for international play, on a team that would cheap out, fly them coach, put them up in shitty hotels, etc. The guys you now see at the top level deserve every bit and more praise because they’ve had to make careers of it swimming upstream. If you can’t see how much more difficult it is for Canadians to make a career out of this game, you are truly blind.

Here’s where you fall off the rails with me: I 100% disagree with your assertion that there aren’t ANY good people at the grassroots level. You couldn’t be any more incorrect on that front; we have some very good coaches doing very good things with players that never get recognized. Meanwhile, we have both an uneducated public that is critical of a system they have no clue about, and could never fathom the challenges, and people like you- foreigners from footballing first cultures that show up here, and treat us like country bumpkins that have never seen a football. You fixate on one very small aspect of my coaching- the fact I rewarded little, house level playing girls with ice cream for being able to complete technical moves in games. When they were 6, 7, and 8 years old. Again, playing house. You fixate on this as a MAJOR PROBLEM with the whole system! I have to ask, are you mad?

So, of ALL the issues we’ve “discussed” on this forum, you and I slightly disagree on a couple of things, if we can look at this completely analytically. With anyone else, I could sit down with a person who disagrees with me on a philosophical issue, and be open to discussion, so far as opening my mind and eyes to their point of view. Not you. The real problem here in this discussion isn’t us, it’s you and your condescending nature, and absolute refusal to believe and understand there are some pretty fcuking smart and good coaches on this forum where you too could actually learn something. You seem to think we haven’t been around the game our whole lives, and haven’t picked up a few things along the way. And, you have no idea the absolute high level of quality there is here (not me, others), and how truly insulting you are to them. These are people that could actually help you on your path, but you’ve come here and burned bridges. You asked me to come out and burry the hatchet…do you think I’d ever have a coffee with you? After what you’ve written? The reality is, I would never be able to look you in the eye with any respect. Thus, I could never have a cordial conversation w/ you.

The real humor in this, and truth is, I know this for a fact that the actual soccer coach 1/3 of the “Soccer Coach” persona can’t actually play worth a damn. Never mind playing at the highest levels locally, you’d be run off the pitch in a div. 2 masters league game. You would never survive either on the pitch, or in the change room. You would never have the respect of your teammates, and the reality is, you don’t have the respect of the adults you “coach”, because you can’t play yourself, and your top players are paid to play by the benevolent other 1/3 of your “Persona”. Truth hurts.

What he says.

Brilliant post.
Possibly the best post ever on this site.
Especially "your an idiot"
I don't know this guy, but from someone who has been involved in actually coaching the Canadian Team, your description of him is "spot on".
I will just ignore any of his posts & respond to the many other people who care about our game, whether I agree with them , or not.
Nobody has all of the answers here, but we have opinions, I respect that.
Some have more experience than others, but that doesn't always make them right. Myself included.
But, the more experienced people on here, & there are many of them, have what I call "an educated opinion".

 

[dezza]

 

[Regs]

Who is this guy?

 

[Regs]

 

[Dude]

Passionate, but can't say I am 100% on the same page.

Sure, I disagreed on some selections, and on subs. But hey, there will never be a coach where everyone 100% agrees on those issues.

He brought some respectability back to the program, and brought players back into the fold that were otherwise looking in other directions.

That said, I do agree that now his time is likely up, and he'll be moving on. My concern is this: who's next in line? I'm not so sure it should be a Canadian coach. I'm not convince right now we have a guy young enough w/ enough experience. But, for fun, who would be in line?

Nick Dasovic comes to mind, but he's out of work for a reason.

Many will say Colin Miller, but I'm not so sure.

Who else? What's Paul Peschisolido doing these days?

I really do think that CONCACAF experience is critical, either as a coach, or player. And of course the problem is, there are so few who have both.

 

[Dude]

Just listened to Carlo....

Who is this guy, Anthony? Bit of loudmouth, but makes for good radio. Bob Bradley? Arena? When would they ever coach in Canada? No fcuking way! EVER! Don't see it! I don't see that they'd do it on a patriotic level, and even if they would, I don't see the bus full of cash it'd take.

Is it time to take another run at Frank Yallop? Back him up with a real budget?

Not sure bout Watson & Daso...maybe on the connection level, Carlo makes a good point. Tough one.

@Soccer Coach: listen to what Carlo has to say about the old CSL. Just listen, and try and understand what we're missing on the Domestic Professional League level. You've asked us to open our minds, you need to as well, and listen to guys, like Corrazin, who have been there, done that, and understand full well ALL the barriers of entry our system has.

 

[Dude]

...just finished the whole interview w/ Carlo. Anthony's finishing statement spoke to me. Couldn't agree more.