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Div 2 Div 2 Rumours & Other Gossip
- Thread starter Nickel
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Worst Team in Division 2?
Just wondering if we can determine the worst team in Division 2 here. From 2 "B" I have to say that the three bottom dwellers all have some skill. Fury probably don't deserve to be at the bottom right now ... Signmaster competes hard, and Heights are marginal. So from 2"B" my vote goes to Heights.
2 "A" ... any complaints if we go with CHKSPA?
2 "C" ... B United?
Who would win between these two teams, or does anyone give a rat's @ss?
Just wondering if we can determine the worst team in Division 2 here. From 2 "B" I have to say that the three bottom dwellers all have some skill. Fury probably don't deserve to be at the bottom right now ... Signmaster competes hard, and Heights are marginal. So from 2"B" my vote goes to Heights.
2 "A" ... any complaints if we go with CHKSPA?
2 "C" ... B United?
Who would win between these two teams, or does anyone give a rat's @ss?
Incomparable? Uncomparable?
Teelay, it's kind of hard to compare B united to anyone 'cause they usually only show up with enough guys for a seven aside tournament. Their goalie is pretty good though and they do have a couple of half decent players although they must work on their inter-squad arguing a lot at practice. But hey, they DID beat NKH 3-0.
Whatever that tells you. I'm going for B united to pummel CHSPCA 3-1 and win (lose?) the Toilet Bowl.
Teelay, it's kind of hard to compare B united to anyone 'cause they usually only show up with enough guys for a seven aside tournament. Their goalie is pretty good though and they do have a couple of half decent players although they must work on their inter-squad arguing a lot at practice. But hey, they DID beat NKH 3-0.
Whatever that tells you. I'm going for B united to pummel CHSPCA 3-1 and win (lose?) the Toilet Bowl. 
Div. 2 CAT
Question for anyone in Div. 2 CAT: how good, really, is the quality of play. I ask because a team that played in the FVSL last year and finished mid-pack in Div. 3 is nipping at the top of the table (with games in hand), using essentially the same players. I’m referring to Surrey United “C”.
I know one of the guys, and he says the competition is substantially easier. So much easier, in fact, that a lot of the players are talking about going back to the Valley to help fix United’s program over there. Is there a big difference between Div. 2 and Div. 2 CAT?
What’s the scoop?
Question for anyone in Div. 2 CAT: how good, really, is the quality of play. I ask because a team that played in the FVSL last year and finished mid-pack in Div. 3 is nipping at the top of the table (with games in hand), using essentially the same players. I’m referring to Surrey United “C”.
I know one of the guys, and he says the competition is substantially easier. So much easier, in fact, that a lot of the players are talking about going back to the Valley to help fix United’s program over there. Is there a big difference between Div. 2 and Div. 2 CAT?
What’s the scoop?
Going for the Double...Jim Beam Gunners
Vratar, early exit from the cup.....you must have us mistaken with the Rangers....at least we can "walk the walk". Sorry Keeper, couldn't resist...
Iron Miss, did all your friends help you with that one....sure was a good comback !!!
With all this rain, the mighty Beam is going to have to opt out of some of the April tourney's as we'll still be playing league and cup games. I guess this will give the rest of you a chance to win something this year.
Mickster........confidence or arrogance
Vratar, early exit from the cup.....you must have us mistaken with the Rangers....at least we can "walk the walk". Sorry Keeper, couldn't resist...
Iron Miss, did all your friends help you with that one....sure was a good comback !!!
With all this rain, the mighty Beam is going to have to opt out of some of the April tourney's as we'll still be playing league and cup games. I guess this will give the rest of you a chance to win something this year.
Mickster........confidence or arrogance
Div 2 CAT
Dude,
I would have to agree with the guys from Surrey, I've played in Div 2 for the past 5 years and this year I'm in Div 2 CAT with Meralomas 'B'. The standard of the CAT division is definitely lower than of a regular Div 2 team. There are some pretty shocking teams. The teams at the top of the CAT divisions are good Div 2 teams but it depends whether you get them on a day when they have a few of their Div 1 guys playing for them or on a day when their best players have been loaned to the Div 1 side. In our club it has been pretty fluid which means that week to week we field a different team, and we've only lost once.
Dude,
I would have to agree with the guys from Surrey, I've played in Div 2 for the past 5 years and this year I'm in Div 2 CAT with Meralomas 'B'. The standard of the CAT division is definitely lower than of a regular Div 2 team. There are some pretty shocking teams. The teams at the top of the CAT divisions are good Div 2 teams but it depends whether you get them on a day when they have a few of their Div 1 guys playing for them or on a day when their best players have been loaned to the Div 1 side. In our club it has been pretty fluid which means that week to week we field a different team, and we've only lost once.
Boycs
I pretty sure w/ the Surrey Div. 2 CAT team, there is virtually no interaction with the other Surrey United teams...they have the same team every week. I'm KNVB will tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.
I just found it curious...those guys were sold on going over, because they were "moving up" a division and would be getting better competition. They have in fact found it quite a bit easier than Div. 3 was in the Valley. Mind you, last season the league added three more divisions. They essentially took the old Div. 1 (groups a, b, and c) and split it into three divisions- adding 3rd, 4th, and 5th divisions w/ 10 teams each. Now they have 1-4, & Cat plus Premier. Div. 3 used to be Div. 1C.
Interesting. Anyhow, back to the Valley threads!
I pretty sure w/ the Surrey Div. 2 CAT team, there is virtually no interaction with the other Surrey United teams...they have the same team every week. I'm KNVB will tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.
I just found it curious...those guys were sold on going over, because they were "moving up" a division and would be getting better competition. They have in fact found it quite a bit easier than Div. 3 was in the Valley. Mind you, last season the league added three more divisions. They essentially took the old Div. 1 (groups a, b, and c) and split it into three divisions- adding 3rd, 4th, and 5th divisions w/ 10 teams each. Now they have 1-4, & Cat plus Premier. Div. 3 used to be Div. 1C.
Interesting. Anyhow, back to the Valley threads!
CAT teams
I can't comment on Division 2 CAT because I haven't watched any game this year, but I did have the luxury(?) of watching a Division 1 CAT game this year between Croatia and someone (Croatia is near the top of Div 1 CAT). I have to say that the level of play in that game was pretty horrific and probably equivalent to an uninspired Division 2 game on any given day.
I also watched a Premier game where a team (Westside, I believe) used one of their Division 1 CAT defencemen due to injury. Naturally, they would pull up their best CAT defender, and this guy was clearly the worst player on the field by a longshot. I've played against much better defenders in Division 2 than the guys I've seen in Div 1 CAT.
I would put Division 2 on par with Division 1 CAT for the most part (at least the top half of the groupings). Which means that Div 2 CAT would likely be inferior quality.
I can't comment on Division 2 CAT because I haven't watched any game this year, but I did have the luxury(?) of watching a Division 1 CAT game this year between Croatia and someone (Croatia is near the top of Div 1 CAT). I have to say that the level of play in that game was pretty horrific and probably equivalent to an uninspired Division 2 game on any given day.
I also watched a Premier game where a team (Westside, I believe) used one of their Division 1 CAT defencemen due to injury. Naturally, they would pull up their best CAT defender, and this guy was clearly the worst player on the field by a longshot. I've played against much better defenders in Division 2 than the guys I've seen in Div 1 CAT.
I would put Division 2 on par with Division 1 CAT for the most part (at least the top half of the groupings). Which means that Div 2 CAT would likely be inferior quality.
The CAT Question
I don't think skill is all that different between the two. In fact, I'd argue that differences are better or worse, depending on which team you're talking about. Overall, I'd say it's pretty much the same.
The problem with the CAT teams are lack of comfort with players moving up or down. For example, we've used a few Bimini's players . . . . well, I could count the number of times on one hand. On occasion, it seems that we're expecting the player to zig instead of zag.
Meanwhile, some believe that the CAT system is meant to develop youth and to bring them up to higher levels of soccer. Well, to quote Homer Simpson: "In theory. In theory, communism works." In reality, I believe that most of the teams simply use the CAT system as a respository of extra players in case one can't field a full team.
In the end, just about all the same.
I don't think skill is all that different between the two. In fact, I'd argue that differences are better or worse, depending on which team you're talking about. Overall, I'd say it's pretty much the same.
The problem with the CAT teams are lack of comfort with players moving up or down. For example, we've used a few Bimini's players . . . . well, I could count the number of times on one hand. On occasion, it seems that we're expecting the player to zig instead of zag.
Meanwhile, some believe that the CAT system is meant to develop youth and to bring them up to higher levels of soccer. Well, to quote Homer Simpson: "In theory. In theory, communism works." In reality, I believe that most of the teams simply use the CAT system as a respository of extra players in case one can't field a full team.
In the end, just about all the same.
Dude's Obsession
Are you an "in the closet Surrey United wannabe"??? what's with all of your references to Surrey United and claiming that you know this guy and that guy within the organization are you lurking at our training sessions??? The Club's chairman was mentioning something about a strange lad peering through the brush the past few weeks!!! come clean Dude, is there any factual info you have or are you just attempting to get us to let you in on the scoop at the top Surrey Club??? something is a little fishy around here!!!
GuinnesswantingDudetogiveitup!!!
BTW, the prez hasn't kicked a ball in over 10 years, but he says he may be interested in yours...
Are you an "in the closet Surrey United wannabe"???
what's with all of your references to Surrey United and claiming that you know this guy and that guy within the organization are you lurking at our training sessions??? The Club's chairman was mentioning something about a strange lad peering through the brush the past few weeks!!! come clean Dude, is there any factual info you have or are you just attempting to get us to let you in on the scoop at the top Surrey Club??? something is a little fishy around here!!! GuinnesswantingDudetogiveitup!!!
BTW, the prez hasn't kicked a ball in over 10 years, but he says he may be interested in yours...
Div 2C
My pick would be "B" United for their vast talents on the pitch...
I have not seen that many toe-punts in any one game since I was a wee tot. I can't even tell you what their idea of "running off the ball" means to them. 5 years ago, B United would be a basement dweller in Div 3.
Which leads me to my next thought concerning talent throughout the VMSSL. I agree with a few prior posts regarding the Cat level of abilities in both Div 1 & Div 2. SHITE IN GENERAL... Now I am not knocking all Cat teams but a majority would be competitng in the middle of the pack in both Div 1 & Div 2.
I am still not a huge fan of the whole CAT and Divisional infrastructure that has taken place over the number of years. The VMSSL is lacking a crucial point - BALANCE....
This re-structuring process has eliminated competitivness, created "expansion-like" watered down pool of talent in all divisions. My point please refer to standings in all divisions and you see a common trend and large point spreads between the top and bottom.
My solution? Skim down # of teams in Premier to 8-10. Get rid of the cat system, if you are a player in the cat system, and are waiting for your big call up to the "show" tough, shite or get off the pot, either you play premier or div 1 or you don't!
The shift will create more balance as the Premier teams are more competitive, brings more talent in Div 1 and Div 2 and should expand Div 3 to at least 30 teams!
5 years ago under the old system, teams like B United et al. would never step foot in Div 2. Div 3 had 40+ teams and was more competitive with the top teams in thier div then the current structure of 6 to 8 teams now????
The following expressed views are not necessarily those reflected by senior management.
My pick would be "B" United for their vast talents on the pitch...
I have not seen that many toe-punts in any one game since I was a wee tot. I can't even tell you what their idea of "running off the ball" means to them. 5 years ago, B United would be a basement dweller in Div 3.
Which leads me to my next thought concerning talent throughout the VMSSL. I agree with a few prior posts regarding the Cat level of abilities in both Div 1 & Div 2. SHITE IN GENERAL... Now I am not knocking all Cat teams but a majority would be competitng in the middle of the pack in both Div 1 & Div 2.
I am still not a huge fan of the whole CAT and Divisional infrastructure that has taken place over the number of years. The VMSSL is lacking a crucial point - BALANCE....
This re-structuring process has eliminated competitivness, created "expansion-like" watered down pool of talent in all divisions. My point please refer to standings in all divisions and you see a common trend and large point spreads between the top and bottom.
My solution? Skim down # of teams in Premier to 8-10. Get rid of the cat system, if you are a player in the cat system, and are waiting for your big call up to the "show" tough, shite or get off the pot, either you play premier or div 1 or you don't!
The shift will create more balance as the Premier teams are more competitive, brings more talent in Div 1 and Div 2 and should expand Div 3 to at least 30 teams!
5 years ago under the old system, teams like B United et al. would never step foot in Div 2. Div 3 had 40+ teams and was more competitive with the top teams in thier div then the current structure of 6 to 8 teams now????
The following expressed views are not necessarily those reflected by senior management.
the insider
Member
CAT vs Non CAT
I agree with Hammer... mostly.
The problem started when the league moved to 14 teams in Premier. But that had nothing to do with CAT teams. They wanted to include the best two teams from the Valley (Abbotsford and Surrey United) and to get the agreement from VMSL clubs they used two more Premier spots for VMSL Div One teams as bait.
Then the CAT system came in. At first the CAT Teams and Non-CAT teams competed against each other with the major difference being that a CAT team could not be promoted if their was already another CAT affiliate from the same club in the Division above. I thought that worked pretty well. We more or less had the balance we had before (except for the extra teams in Premier).
But because of some whiners the league decided to split all the CAT teams into their own Divisions. Because many of the Premier sides wanted reserves to call upon (Well said Keeper) Div 1 was expanded by 14 bloody teams instead of just split in half. Talk about watering down a product.
Of course this elevated a bunch of Div 2 sides into Div 1 as Div 1 CATS and Div 3 sides (Our Bombastic B is one of those) into Div 2 CAT. It also opened spaces in the regular Div 2 sections for other Div 3 teams. So even though Div 2 stayed approximately the same number of teams the quality of those teams have suffered.
Bombastic value the CAT system. Mostly for what Keeper said about being able to field teams for all our games no matter what. Sometimes players are away when you need them most but the league must go on. We'll never have a problem like what happened to B United all year, Champlain Heights at the end and even JB's once against us this year. I think that is good for the credibility of the VMSL as a competitive league. No one should have their Saturday ruined by the other showing up with only 7 guys or the other not showing up at all.
However, I do think we should mix the CAT's and Non-CATS again. Go back to 10 premier sides, 20 Div 1 40 Div 2 and 40 between Div 3 and U-21's. So what if a Premier side has a Div 2 Team for it's reserves. If they are worth their stripes they'll be promoted to Div 1. If they aren't eligible because their club already has a Div 1 side well then they'll still be good for a match- and we'll know they'll show up with at least 11.
I agree with Hammer... mostly.
The problem started when the league moved to 14 teams in Premier. But that had nothing to do with CAT teams. They wanted to include the best two teams from the Valley (Abbotsford and Surrey United) and to get the agreement from VMSL clubs they used two more Premier spots for VMSL Div One teams as bait.
Then the CAT system came in. At first the CAT Teams and Non-CAT teams competed against each other with the major difference being that a CAT team could not be promoted if their was already another CAT affiliate from the same club in the Division above. I thought that worked pretty well. We more or less had the balance we had before (except for the extra teams in Premier).
But because of some whiners the league decided to split all the CAT teams into their own Divisions. Because many of the Premier sides wanted reserves to call upon (Well said Keeper) Div 1 was expanded by 14 bloody teams instead of just split in half. Talk about watering down a product.
Of course this elevated a bunch of Div 2 sides into Div 1 as Div 1 CATS and Div 3 sides (Our Bombastic B is one of those) into Div 2 CAT. It also opened spaces in the regular Div 2 sections for other Div 3 teams. So even though Div 2 stayed approximately the same number of teams the quality of those teams have suffered.
Bombastic value the CAT system. Mostly for what Keeper said about being able to field teams for all our games no matter what. Sometimes players are away when you need them most but the league must go on. We'll never have a problem like what happened to B United all year, Champlain Heights at the end and even JB's once against us this year. I think that is good for the credibility of the VMSL as a competitive league. No one should have their Saturday ruined by the other showing up with only 7 guys or the other not showing up at all.
However, I do think we should mix the CAT's and Non-CATS again. Go back to 10 premier sides, 20 Div 1 40 Div 2 and 40 between Div 3 and U-21's. So what if a Premier side has a Div 2 Team for it's reserves. If they are worth their stripes they'll be promoted to Div 1. If they aren't eligible because their club already has a Div 1 side well then they'll still be good for a match- and we'll know they'll show up with at least 11.
Damn!
shite Guinness- you found me out! But you’ve got it all wrong…I’ve been assigned by Kenny Cormack to lurk in the bushes, seek out the cracks in the armour, and expose them to cause mayhem and rebellion within the core of Surrey United. The fact is, the only time I’d ever consider joining Surrey United would be to take part in “Pile on Guinness’ Missus Night”. It is tempting, considering this is a bi-weekly event.
One more thought before I go back to the Valley threads: why is there a need to keep the league to 3 divisions? Why not 7? They could have a Premier division, and a reserve division (only for Premier), then Div. 1-5, plus U-21. Contract the Premier, and have 12 teams per division. The only real problem here is that the league wouldn’t be able to fit a 24 game schedule…but the y could fit a 20 game schedule in. Simply make draws at the end of the year to establish which teams in each division will only see each other once. This way, the league keeps with the mandate to build a strong club system, but also strengthens each division. The competition to earn promotion throughout divisions would be fierce!
With that though, I must part. My wisdom is needed back in the Valley threads. God only knows the mayhem going on there now!
Dude-where'smypeephole
shite Guinness- you found me out! But you’ve got it all wrong…I’ve been assigned by Kenny Cormack to lurk in the bushes, seek out the cracks in the armour, and expose them to cause mayhem and rebellion within the core of Surrey United. The fact is, the only time I’d ever consider joining Surrey United would be to take part in “Pile on Guinness’ Missus Night”.
It is tempting, considering this is a bi-weekly event. One more thought before I go back to the Valley threads: why is there a need to keep the league to 3 divisions? Why not 7? They could have a Premier division, and a reserve division (only for Premier), then Div. 1-5, plus U-21. Contract the Premier, and have 12 teams per division. The only real problem here is that the league wouldn’t be able to fit a 24 game schedule…but the y could fit a 20 game schedule in. Simply make draws at the end of the year to establish which teams in each division will only see each other once. This way, the league keeps with the mandate to build a strong club system, but also strengthens each division. The competition to earn promotion throughout divisions would be fierce!
With that though, I must part. My wisdom is needed back in the Valley threads. God only knows the mayhem going on there now!
Dude-where'smypeephole
H
Heavy Set
Captain, Yes its Hurricane Jr all the way from the motherland! So how is the team looking? Coach has been telling me that the team is playing well, whats your take on this? In your mind how will the team do if/when you make it to Div 1? Well good luck in promotion and I'll talk to you soon.
to late
Honestly what damage could you do. Being a div 3 valley player you would have to start at the bottom and work your way up. By the time you got to us it would be time for you to retire. Tell Kenny to call me. We could use the Rangers in our club. My cooler has busted and the pints are getting warm.
SurreyUnitedforever.
Dude you'll have to wait untill next year. The last one was on Tuesday.
Honestly what damage could you do. Being a div 3 valley player you would have to start at the bottom and work your way up. By the time you got to us it would be time for you to retire. Tell Kenny to call me. We could use the Rangers in our club. My cooler has busted and the pints are getting warm.
SurreyUnitedforever.
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