FVSL New Divisional Alignment

[italian_stallion21]

16 teams, we better get more then 15 games if all other leagues are getting 18. My suggestion is after each team has played everyone once(15 games) the top 4 are seperated and play each other again in the final 3 games to decide 1st-4th, points carrying over of course. continue this down with 5-8, 9-12 etc. This way the end of the season is very competitve to decide placement abd everyone gets good final compeition, even the bottom feeders. Obviously you can't finish above your grouping despite points, as you will be playing lesser competition in the final 3 games.

I like that idea, like a round robin to end the season. That would be a scheduling nightmare I would think though. But it's so hard to make any changes like that, it would almost certainly have to be for the 2011 season since teams should be informed more than a couple weeks in advance.

 

[bananaman]

Is all this talk of divisional alignment changes a possibility or is it just fun banter on TTP. It seems like majority of people would like to see a change and if this is a possibility would the league listen to its players/coaches etc or would they do what they want?

Someone mentioned having divisions in line with the rest of the world - premier down to 5/6, wherever it may go. How can that not seem like the simplest way to do things? All the abc league does is cause confusion and arguments especially if you are a team that gets placed in a tough alignment but in another you might be fighting for promotion. More so this year when it is all geographical. (Nomads, WR, Whalley could all be pushing for top 2 in 2a as we only have one stand out team - Gunners, but because they are in another alignment they wont get promoted) All the nonsense about who has the better team and who is in the better div (abc) would easily be sorted out with straight ladder formation (but then again TTP would suffer haha). The ladder system would level out leagues and put the teams where they belong based on the skill level of each team rather than location in FV. Sure you may have to travel but we have been doing the last 10 years or more anyway. I don't claim to have any solutions or answers and I definitely do not have a itemized list of costs etc for travel (Sorry Rich) - but it comes down to simplicity and common sense and not everyone will be happy every year.

 

[italian_stallion21]

It could become a possibility but I don't believe its ever been brought up in the AGM, which is the starting point for any discussion if we want it to happen.

 

[Mr Base]

See guys I grew up in Europ That's the way things have gone for years. It makes it easy two best teams move up. Every game means alot. Bulllive good Idea. 18 games is just right. On top of it all, open cup like they have in England or the othe Europian countries.
Every side would train like dogs to prove the point. When you make it simple. You will not have to spend as much.Just to let you guys know we have three guys trying out in Europe from Fraser Valley div three side. Soccer is a funny thing. You can play well but the centre man controls the out come in local soccer. That also has to change. And soccer here is as good as anywhere elss. but as long as our kids get the tryouts that is also OK. Development is more important than the old mans ego. That what hapens when the main man does not want to get up. He gets grampy.

 

[johnnybluenose]

I have been told there is no appetite for uneven unbalanced schedules going forward.

Look for 10 teams per division with home and away games vs each, or 19 team divisions with playing every team once either home or away.

The goofy number of teams in divisions causes the headaches for schedules and does affect parity.

 

[ghouse]

Im not a fan of the rec league ,sorry JBN ,I think humans are to competitive for a division with no results. Even guys playing for beers want to win. hence the boat races after thier games. Everyone plays to win...or they should go jogging. and even joggers sprint at the end.
I do like the Idea of a ladder system with more divisions though. But I think It should be closer to what we have today. Add another division and have 2, A and B sub divs in each but not 3 sub divs as we have now. The way I am suggesting would look like

BCPL cause its still happening(you will see)
Premier 10
Div1 20 - 20 in div 1 works...the best always are on top. No room for mistakes.
Div2 a 10 Div2 b 10 - top team in each moves up, 2 divs keeps travel down(geo divs)
Div3 a 10 Div3 b 10 -same
Div4 a 10 Div4 b 10-same

Div 4 could be 8 teams in each
This I could see happening because its not to much of a change from before. To much change will not get voted in, A little tweeking(for now) might happen.
And yes all odd number of teams would be for the bottom divs as they are playing more for fun than the rest. And it strengthens every div a bit.

 

[johnnybluenose]

it is pretty much the same as mine, except Div 1 should have the same amount of teams as premier, streamlining the top divs should be a priority, as well as 20 teams in a division doesn't work based on an 18 week league game sched... 19 does.

 

[ScotKop]

See guys I grew up in Europ. And soccer here is as good as anywhere elss.

Aye right, then you must have grown up in the Faroe Islands.

 

[italian_stallion21]

I have been told there is no appetite for uneven unbalanced schedules going forward.

Look for 10 teams per division with home and away games vs each, or 19 team divisions with playing every team once either home or away.

The goofy number of teams in divisions causes the headaches for schedules and does affect parity.

I had figured that, it was a mess with Master's, but they had to do it in order to get parity. Would love home and away, and a 10 team Premier and D1 would be awesome for the D1 team(s) going up, as the competition week in and week out would be much stronger and should better prepare them.

 

[Reds-16]

here's my proposal for an alignment for 2010/11 season, assuming no teams fold or new ones apply...and streamline the league.

Leave Premier at 10 teams, D1 winner goes up (probably WFC Prospects, LUFC Athletics or SFC Rangers)
Cull Div 1 down. Instead of relegating the bottom 3 to Div 2, just leave D1 as the newly relegated Prem team and teams finishing 2-10 for a total of 10 teams.
Then you have teams 11-15 joined up with the D2 pool winners plus 2 additional teams... Div 2B is the relegated 3 teams from D1 and then 7 top teams from 2A-2C...

anyways... so it goes.. here's what it might look like:

Premier: ACBC, Poco, Pomo, LUFC, PAU, Abby, GEU, Aldy, Chili, Caps Prospects

Div 1: ND Lions, LU Athletics, SFC Rangers, PoMo Gunners, TeeDub, Highlanders, LU Dynamo, NDFC, SFC Strikers, Poco Rev/Sentinel

Div 2A: Poco Rev/Sentinel, PAU, Razerbacks, PA Selects, Stolo, Pomo Gunners, GEU Inter, Guildford Utd, ACBC, Red Devils.

Div 2B: Poco Royals, DFC Celtic, LUFC Nomads, Young Guns, WRU, Abby Arsenal, Aldergrove utd, Surrey Coyotes, Whalley Utd, LUFC Athletica/DU Rangers

Div 2C: 19 Teams: Coq MF Titans, GEU Pumas, Bullets, Sikh Utd, Athletica/DU Rangers, Bradner, Poco Pacific, Cloverdale FC, Abby Utd SC, BC United, Mission Athletic, SFC Peg Impact, ND Titans, SFC Caps, Balkan Wolves, Pomo Magpies, GEU Phoenix, Vault FC, LUFC Clones.

Masters: 16 teams


For Cup play: The Pak Cup is Premier and Div 1, and the Div 2A teams can apply to play in it if they choose, The Knights/Presidents cup is competed for by all the Div 2 teams, D3 (if one exists) and any teams from the Rec that apply.
Whichever...

I Like this type of alignment. But why not split Div 2C into two groups and call the 3a and b, or do people have a huge issue being called div3. And instead of a rec league have a Div4 with (A and B if needed), because as Rich says everybody wants to be competitive to the best of their ability. Let the top 2 still move up and bottom 2 still move down between divs 2- 3 - and 4 respectively.

 

[johnnybluenose]

Sure, whatever you name it is fine... You can put lipstick on a pig, but a pig is still a pig

 

[johnnybluenose]

Well Now the Press Release/Info letter went out to all the teams managers with direction for it to be passed to the players (members of the FVSL) what do we know?

The BCPSL is not a go. however we don't have any news on the promotion/relegation thing for the outcome of the last few weeks of the season etc...

What is the deal?

Official joint Statement from the FVSL, VISL and BC Soccer
• Fraser Valley Soccer League – Thomas Mills, President
• Vancouver Island Soccer League – Fraser Sim, President
• BC Soccer – Kjeld Brodsgaard, VP Senior
On Tuesday morning Feb 16, 2010 we were notified by Willie Azzi, President - VMSL that the Vancouver Metro Soccer League (VMSL) Premier teams had voted against any participation in the proposed BC Premier Soccer League (BCPSL).
The FVSL, VISL and BC Soccer are very disappointed in the set back to growth of the Senior Men's game in British Columbia and wish to thank their respective membership for the support that they have given to this project.
During the past two years, the VISL and FVSL in conjunction with BC Soccer have negotiated in good faith with the VMSL and were repeatedly reassured that this project was approved by both the VMSL Premier teams and the league membership. This NEW division was sanctioned by BC Soccer (New Association created BRITISH COLUMBIA PREMIER SOCCER LEAGUE) and both leagues have restructured their relegation and promotion regulations to accommodate teams moving to the proposed league and this has affected many divisions in the two leagues.
In addition, the members of the VISL have approved a $5 increase in player fees to provide assistance with travel costs for the three teams that were to compete in the BCPSL and the FVSL were in the process of presenting something similar to their membership.
Items that were defined for this new division include-
• Travel Equalization Subsidy Plan
• Website - including sponsored Team Pages
• Match Schedule
• Referee payment structure and scheduling
• Player movement and Permits
• Home field standards and presentation
• Executive Committee membership
• Discipline process & standards
• Sponsorship standards Plan
• Home Cup participation Plan
• Provincial Cup participation Plan
• BCPSL Logo
The FVSL and the VISL are both committed to the growth of Senior Men’s Soccer in British Columbia and with the support of BC Soccer will continue to work together to explore ways to improve the game.
We are currently reviewing ALL participation with the VMSL including the All Star Program. Under consideration is the formation of a Champions League format for the 2010 – 2011 season to include only the VISL and FVSL in a crossover schedule to be played throughout the season.

Two things jump out.
1. We need something from Mr. Mills to the clubs and teams from the FVSL, not just the BCPSL. And we need the info so the clubs and indy teams can vote on a solution. I am not saying anything bad about Thomas, as I think he and his group do a great job with the FVSL... I just think the teams and players need to be informed as most of us are trying to do what we cna to set ourselves up for next year both for promo/relegation and to begin Summer preparations for the fall of '10-11.
2. Educate everyone on the last point of the letter... they state a joint league thing between the VISL and FVSL throughout the season... is this midweek? will it simply pip the SX Cup? Will it be run as well?

Interesting stuff to stickhandle now.

Personally I see it as a great opportunity to streamline the divisions...

Premier Down to what ever you call the lowest divisions... but the first goal should be to get Premier and Div 1 to a manageable and very competitive 10 team per divisional alignment.

Prem: 10 Teams
D1: 10 teams
D2 East (or however you want to manage it etc): 10 teams
D2 West (see above): 10 teams
D3, D4, D5 etc...

 

[ghouse]

Nothing in stone but what was talked about Wednesday night ,and I want to say it again..talked about..
Was ...Because of the collapse of the BCPSL we need to go back to the way things were. But that being said, so many teams have worked so hard to be promoted and others were not trying to stay off religation and were playing younger guys because they were not worried about religation...We cant really religate or ask teams to play for religation if it wasnt anounced earlyer....So its a real spot we and all 3 leagues are in..The agreement was to be fair as possable...but that will always be in the eyes of the beholder.
So what was discussed for this year...was to religate the 1 premier team...and have the top 4 Div 1 teams playoff for the final spot.
There is no way the FVSL league is strong enough to have 12 Premier teams.
Now remember the FVSL has made a motion to MAKE everyteam with promotion take it...due to the amount of teams needed (before) to move Up.(4)..
Well now if say the Rangers and only because they usually dont want Promotion.The Rangers dont want to playoff they dont have to. This way all 4 teams are at least being given the chance to play for the spot. Or Not.
10 Premier
then what was suggested is 2 -10 team divisions for div 1.next year.
winners promoted bottom 2 religated from each div.
Still 3 teams religated from div 1 this year and the 3 div 2 winners and the 2 second place div 2 teams(best record) promoted. (2 x10)
Some more ideas were put on the table...
The league doesnt like the full ladder system because they feel it takes teams to long to move up the ladder from div 4 to Premier. And most players dont stay with one team long enough to go through the long process. They feel to help teams stay together a shorter route should be in use to encourage good ,younger players to stick with thier or a one club.
So now remember this is just talk..and going for a executive meeting and vote.
But they talked about a 4 -10 team div 2 with division winners moveing to div 1
4 up every year and 4 down from div 1 ,2 from each new division.
The rest of the teams in div 3 with whatever promotion religation that fits how many teams left.
Confused...
Premier -10 religate 2
Div 1 -2x10 religate 4
Div 2 -4x10 religate 4
Div 3 -2x what ever.

Just talked about

 

[DJGMC]

I like the above post but I still think the GOAL should be to improve div 1 and premier. With the 18 current Div 1 teams, it is not strong enough period. Div 1 needs less teams. It better prepares you for premier with a more challenging year!

 

[WestCoast]

I like the above post but I still think the GOAL should be to improve div 1 and premier. With the 18 current Div 1 teams, it is not strong enough period. Div 1 needs less teams. It better prepares you for premier with a more challenging year!

But it goes back to the whole "A" form debate. More teams on "A" forms the better for FVSL.

 

[italian_stallion21]

So maybe you shold read more, as it was made aware that A forms actually don't matter for Provincial spots.

 

[ghouse]

Actually they do matter..The VMSL just didnt make anyone aware they were dropping the CAT teams off the A forms until after they desided to keep things the way they were..9,5,5,1
Sneeky Sneeky

 

[italian_stallion21]

Actually they do matter..The VMSL just didnt make anyone aware they were dropping the CAT teams off the A forms until after they desided to keep things the way they were..9,5,5,1
Sneeky Sneeky

I was just telling you what I had been told from the FVSL Admin when I forwarded a proposal that would make D1 one more competitive while still having the same amount of teams on A forms. The reply was it is very competitive and it doesn't matter how many A forms we have.

 

[The Phantom]

Actually they do matter..The VMSL just didnt make anyone aware they were dropping the CAT teams off the A forms until after they desided to keep things the way they were..9,5,5,1
Sneeky Sneeky

Just as sneaky as the VMSL premier teams not being informed of everything regarding the BCPL.
Now Ghouse just stop being bitter that you now realize that you fcuked up when you didn't take Delta's Vmsl spot.

 

[ghouse]

Just as sneaky as the VMSL premier teams not being informed of everything regarding the BCPL.
Now Ghouse just stop being bitter that you now realize that you fcuked up when you didn't take Delta's Vmsl spot.

Yes Sneeky from the same guy I might add..your Prez on both accounts.
And I am glad I am not apart of the VMSL. So poorly run with a Prez who doesnt tell anyone from his league or the other leagues whats going on...
No way would I be apart of that.