Completely agree Ghouse. Paperwork mistakes should be fines only. I'm told the full executive is meeting in early Nov. -- possibly tomorrow, to discuss the whole situation.
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Premier [FVSL Premier] Results & Banter November 2008
- Thread starter bluebird
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You aren't saying that Big Bag is fixing the tournament draw are you? I can't imagine anyone ever doing that, eh ghouse?!?!?
I'm pretty sure that no one would do something wrong knowingly and risk a fine or forfeit. If you're talking about the Ajax situation a while back (and I think you are as I said I knew the rules), you must have missed the part where I said I was out of the country for the game and did not realise that one card was missing, and I did not make the team aware of the rule, that's when I took responsibility and said that, yes, my fault1/ but im even more pissed about guys pleading innocent when they made the decision knowing what the rules are .
. We would not have played the player if I was there (actually we would have cause I would have had the card)
cascadesoccer
Well-Known Member
Would anyone be making this big of a deal with big bag, if poco were in the position of abby or dmu??? sounds like a scape goat to me IMO.
johnnybluenose
Well-Known Member
I don't want to wade into the conflict of interest thing, it makes no difference to me since Mr Mills does not run/manage a team that competes against my team. It would be unfair for me to comment
however, on the other stuff:
Fact is the rules have been in place for eons as far as I'm told, and have been the same since my group had our first year in the FVSL (At least in this incarnation)
Our side, as a rule, has been militant about having
1) Both team sheets filled out 100& complete including height,weight, and players number.
2) If a player is missing, regardless of suspension or whatever, that his name and entire row in the spreadsheet is crossed off, in Pen, not pencil, and the ref knows he is not there, on BOTH sheets.
3) That the ref actually does do the card and roster check. I have had to ask the ref twice this year (And I have only been to two of my teams games this year due to my injury and work commitments!)
Regs,
The issue isn't that the players name doesn't appear. The issue is that most teams use the league form and type all of their players data into the sheets, and then saves the sheet and adds to the sheet as the season goes on. The issue is that when a player is suspended, and you don't cross his name off, at least paperwork wise, the league just assumes he plays.
I do think removing any points from a team on a clerical error, when a player was not playing while suspended is harsh, unfair, and unjust. That is what fines are there for. I don't think a team of players should be penalized for a paperwork error their manager may or may not have made.
however, on the other stuff:
Fact is the rules have been in place for eons as far as I'm told, and have been the same since my group had our first year in the FVSL (At least in this incarnation)
Our side, as a rule, has been militant about having
1) Both team sheets filled out 100& complete including height,weight, and players number.
2) If a player is missing, regardless of suspension or whatever, that his name and entire row in the spreadsheet is crossed off, in Pen, not pencil, and the ref knows he is not there, on BOTH sheets.
3) That the ref actually does do the card and roster check. I have had to ask the ref twice this year (And I have only been to two of my teams games this year due to my injury and work commitments!)
Regs,
The issue isn't that the players name doesn't appear. The issue is that most teams use the league form and type all of their players data into the sheets, and then saves the sheet and adds to the sheet as the season goes on. The issue is that when a player is suspended, and you don't cross his name off, at least paperwork wise, the league just assumes he plays.
I do think removing any points from a team on a clerical error, when a player was not playing while suspended is harsh, unfair, and unjust. That is what fines are there for. I don't think a team of players should be penalized for a paperwork error their manager may or may not have made.
Re: PAU loses 4 points
Maybe the INCONSISTANCY of the officials should be the LEAGUES responsibility?
Almost 3 weeks later (late last night) we get a letter from the fvsl administrator stating we have violated 2 separate by-laws in the constitution. For me this is where it gets totally over the top!
There was absolutely no malice or attempt to break the rules from Peace Arch Soccer Club. A permit was correctly filed out for the 'registered' player and the official accepted his drivers licence. If anything we may be guilty of not knowing the exact rule in the constitution (that I have read more today than in my previous 30 years), failing to present a FVSL issued ID at kick off.
It does not state ANYWHERE in the constitution that playing a registered FVSL player without his ID, also makes him an inelligible player! This violation comes with the deduction of an 3 extra points.
Just to sound like a moan, this new development in big bag's league makes a mockery of it all.
Maybe the INCONSISTANCY of the officials should be the LEAGUES responsibility?
It is really hard to take when an official could have stopped this from happening in our situation (points deducted). Our masters keeper arrived to the game just before kick off (they do that in masters) and as we got our ID check he only had his Drivers Licence. The official (senior ref and very well respected around the FVSL) said his licence would be just fine.
Almost 3 weeks later (late last night) we get a letter from the fvsl administrator stating we have violated 2 separate by-laws in the constitution. For me this is where it gets totally over the top!
There was absolutely no malice or attempt to break the rules from Peace Arch Soccer Club. A permit was correctly filed out for the 'registered' player and the official accepted his drivers licence. If anything we may be guilty of not knowing the exact rule in the constitution (that I have read more today than in my previous 30 years), failing to present a FVSL issued ID at kick off.
It does not state ANYWHERE in the constitution that playing a registered FVSL player without his ID, also makes him an inelligible player! This violation comes with the deduction of an 3 extra points.
Just to sound like a moan, this new development in big bag's league makes a mockery of it all.
cascadesoccer
Well-Known Member
On http://www.fraservalleysoccer.com/standings.php [/url] it shows PAU lost 1-0 to Chilliwack. Score before the points were deducted 0-0 tie.. No other games have been changed on the standings except this one. So in which games did ACBC or Chilli lose their points? and why is this the only game changed
The Phantom
Member
Hey Thomas, why don't you come on here and explain to me what you meant the other night when you mentioned that "We'll be on top of the league very shortly?"
Sure the paperwork should be done properly, but taking of points away instead of a fine? Not even in the EPL or other major leagues do you see this kind of mess. Must be the only way Poco can be on top for a while.Get off your high horse and stop making your club look bad.
Eagerly waiting your response. Hopefully the teams that had points unjustly deducted will overcome this.
Sure the paperwork should be done properly, but taking of points away instead of a fine? Not even in the EPL or other major leagues do you see this kind of mess. Must be the only way Poco can be on top for a while.Get off your high horse and stop making your club look bad.
Eagerly waiting your response. Hopefully the teams that had points unjustly deducted will overcome this.
looks pathetic when the prez is pulling strings to have points taken away from teams on technicalities should we ask for poco to be deducted points when we played them for not being able to supply game balls, which was made a rule at the begining of the year, same ball for all teams. looks to me like big bag doesnt have any cofidence in his team so he using his position to better his team, now i hope im wrong but i would be imbarrased if i was on that team and my coach was pulling that crap. in the end your just pissing off the people who are going to vote you in or out of that prez position
Tim Berners-Lee
Well-Known Member
I vote for Impeachment.
I was waiting for that.
Though if you wernt at the AGM I dont know how much right to bitch you should have.
PAU is a bunch of dirty fcuking cheaters. We should lose points for bringing in a 40 club year old GK to help us while our GK recovers from a yellow card offence broken face. Good on Mills and the league for cracking down on what’s truly important and bringing this league to it's knee's.... paper work.
We should also be deducted 3 points for no finish spelling embarrassed with an I…
We should also be deducted 3 points for no finish spelling embarrassed with an I…
- Thread starter
- #75
Re: PAU loses 4 points
(ok so i screwed up my quote )
not too long ago one of our div 2 teams got a $250 for not showing id cards at the start of the game this has been appealed and is under review.slightly diff circumstances but no mention of points deducted
i agree its all harsh but as was stated in another post you do try your best to make sure your paperwork is correct then you get the oppositions and its half arsed
its a tough lesson that wont soon be forgotten, i dont think for a second that it has anything to do with who is now top
but when you have done everything you can to make sure you have covered your ass and then this happens ..... its the shits
(ok so i screwed up my quote )
not too long ago one of our div 2 teams got a $250 for not showing id cards at the start of the game this has been appealed and is under review.slightly diff circumstances but no mention of points deducted
i agree its all harsh but as was stated in another post you do try your best to make sure your paperwork is correct then you get the oppositions and its half arsed
its a tough lesson that wont soon be forgotten, i dont think for a second that it has anything to do with who is now top
but when you have done everything you can to make sure you have covered your ass and then this happens ..... its the shits
We got screwed by paper work also (Chilli). The paper work was in and the administrator was called to see if the player was cleared to play (and the answer was YES!!!) We didn't have a player ID card but we understood that a Drivers licence was sufficient. Also told that the referee would be aware of this player.
I am a new coach/manager to this league and I will take full credit for this mistake. But we Chilliwack are not cheaters In any sense of the word.
I am a new coach/manager to this league and I will take full credit for this mistake. But we Chilliwack are not cheaters In any sense of the word.
cascadesoccer
Well-Known Member
johnnybluenose
Well-Known Member
Listen, you are all jumping the gun here. It is 100% unfair to tar and feather Thomas like this.
There is also Laurel Pokoyski, Kevin Uppal (Who is always very good about answering the call), Will Peacock, Rob Brown, Roop Virk, Brandt Watkins, and Neil Fuge.
The executive is not ONE MAN.
It is very unfair to come out here and start claiming things as fact when it starts off as heresay and gains momentum.
Thomas may have very well done all of what you are saying he did, but nobody has any proof of this, it is heresay that has gined momentum.
As far as the comments made above by "The Phantom": It is pretty easy for you to sit behind your alias on TTP with no proof of who you are and ask Big Bag to come on here and explain himself to the lynch mob that has gathered when you can sit in relative anonymity.
I have no axe to grind myself, and I am not blindly defending the man, I am just a bit off-put by some, not all, of the comments of some folks here.
This is why the leagues (VAlley and VMSL) frown upon TTP...
Whether or not our voices being heard to the community at large is valid or not is irrelevant...It is just reflects very badly on the lot of us for a few clowns to come out here and say that Thomas is overruling the executive committee just to ensure Poco has a shot with no hard facts to base this on.
I stand to be corrected if I am wrong, and you all have valid points, but at this point there is no proof or hard evidence of anything not above-board happening.
The same rules are being applied from Masters to Div3 and everything in between.
There is also Laurel Pokoyski, Kevin Uppal (Who is always very good about answering the call), Will Peacock, Rob Brown, Roop Virk, Brandt Watkins, and Neil Fuge.
The executive is not ONE MAN.
It is very unfair to come out here and start claiming things as fact when it starts off as heresay and gains momentum.
Thomas may have very well done all of what you are saying he did, but nobody has any proof of this, it is heresay that has gined momentum.
As far as the comments made above by "The Phantom": It is pretty easy for you to sit behind your alias on TTP with no proof of who you are and ask Big Bag to come on here and explain himself to the lynch mob that has gathered when you can sit in relative anonymity.
I have no axe to grind myself, and I am not blindly defending the man, I am just a bit off-put by some, not all, of the comments of some folks here.
This is why the leagues (VAlley and VMSL) frown upon TTP...
Whether or not our voices being heard to the community at large is valid or not is irrelevant...It is just reflects very badly on the lot of us for a few clowns to come out here and say that Thomas is overruling the executive committee just to ensure Poco has a shot with no hard facts to base this on.
I stand to be corrected if I am wrong, and you all have valid points, but at this point there is no proof or hard evidence of anything not above-board happening.
The same rules are being applied from Masters to Div3 and everything in between.
What a Fckuckin joke!!! Take away the single point from our tie with Chilli for our goalie not having his Valley card or take all three points if we had won the game, i can live with that. But to take away an additional three points as a penalty is a joke. They would go mental and there would be riots if they tried this in the EPL in england. To make matters worse you have the Prez of the FVSL brass being a part of the decision making process which directly affects his team in the standings. Give us a monetary fine for our mistake, but to take away points is a sleazy attempt to win a league title on the backs of others. If you want a league medal that bad millsy, i'll give you any one of mine, take your pick. POCO players should be embarrassed by this whole fiasco, a definte conflict of interest. Why don't you deduct yourself three points for not having the league issued game balls at our match two weeks ago?? That would put you back on our side of the draw of the Ex cup.
Funny how it all happened right before the draw eh? Spineless.
PS Way to awaken the giant!
Funny how it all happened right before the draw eh? Spineless.
PS Way to awaken the giant!
- Thread starter
- #80
i dont know many of the names above but how many are connected to teams as thomas is and what teams because i get the impression that these people are the ones who made the rulings
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