Scottish Premier League News 2011/12

[johnnybluenose]

Here's a decent post by someone on the Gers Forums claiming to know what the fook he's talking about.
The Gers Forum - Since 2003
Not sure if you need an account or not, so I'll C&P.

Right here goes--->

I work for an insolvency firm, that deal with CVA's, administrations, liquidations etc etc, however, I am not sure of the in and outs of the rangers accounts as none have been published recently.

Rangers are in dire straights just now, Whyte has made a repayment proposal to HMRC which he needs them to agree, if they don't agree then as he said this case could hang over us for years and therefore the future of our club will always be in jeopardy. By making a notice to appoint an Administrator he has done 3 things 1) bought rangers some time as on application for administration a moratorium is setup, meaning people cant try and formally wind us up, collect their assets etc etc etc. 2) He is making the situation very public and therefore holding HMRC to ransom as such 3) gives time for CVA proposal to be prepared

The CVA will be proposed to all creditors which 75% of those voting will have to agree in order to be successful. Whilst Craig Whyte's other companies have a large claim it is unlikely that the CVA will go through as he would need to relinquish any charge that he has, meaning that he would have to unprefer his status to rank alongside the unsecured creditors(this never happens...if he did it would hopefully shut these people up that think he is a t*t). Another point to consider is other clubs, without Rangers they don't exist so they need to consider they amount owed against potential future losses if rangers are not about. In a CVA the directors run the club as normal everything stays the same apart from contributions are made by the club to the (supervisor) person who sets up the arrangment and they will inturn collect it and pay it to the unsecured creditors equally.

So, the likelihood is Administration, in order to enter administration you need to a) rescue as a going concern (which would be the plan) b)achieve a better result for creditors than through a liquidation c) realise property in order to make a distribution.
On entering Administration Rangers would be deducted 10 points and would not be able to sign anyone (thats why they signed Cousin today). The assets would be realised, some people would be made redundant but the club would trade on under the management of an Administrator, so there would be cost cutting(we wouldn't be able to sign anyone anyway). Effectively the club they would try and find a buyer for the club as the valuation of the club would be significantly lower. When the Administration is nearing finalising which could be on the same as it goes into Administration, by way of a prepack sale to a phoenix company (ie Rangers FC Limited trading as Rangers Football Club) or could take 1 year and then it would either need to apply to the creditors but more than likely the court (longer extensions are granted) to extend the administration for another year or end the Administration. If the Administration continues they will attempt to realise more money and continue to look for buyers. However, if they are looking to end the Administration it more than probably end by recovery as a going concern or otherwise by seeking to wind down the company through Liquidation.

In an Admin, HMRC will more than likely never be repaid in full, lucky to get 2p in the £1 especially since he Craig Whyte's company's and the bnak will be secured so HMRC will effectively see nothing. We are all stakeholders in HMRC and therefore if they don't except the payment plan in place not only are they putting theirselves in a worse position but they are also jeopardise the whole league. This won't sit well with many people. However, HMRC do love making examples of companies to ensure that this never happens again but they would get soo much bad press.

A prepack is a possibility whereby if it goes into Admin the company, Whyte would buy the name, assets, goodwill, players blah de blah for a knock down sum under the New company name of rangers football limited (for example) this could happen on the same day it enters into Administration, however, this would mean rangers 1873 would come to an end. HMRC would probably want some money upfront for future VAT tax dealings under the New company.

Whyte is shrude, everyone needs to give the guy a break, he is right rangers can barely exist at the moment nevermind another 4 years with an HMRC case hanging over us. Pity he wasn't involved a while back.

Whilst I accept this is a dire time and pretty much brought me to tears, I hate people saying what about the fans that get cheated, you weren't saying that when we watched Gazza and laudrup if you don't like it don't renew your season books. The fans haven't lost out on anything. The premiership is killing off all other leagues it's a shame.

Best case scenario - CVA is approved
2nd Best - Goes into Admin sell as a going concern + 10 points deduction
3rd Best - Prepack sale + 10 points deduction
4th unthinkable liquidation

the shareholders need to dig deep if they really want to save this club.

Hope the repayment plan goes through.

 

[johnnybluenose]

that being said, above poster spelled Shrewd "Shrude" ...

 

[Captain Shamrock]

It's alright, Gentlemen. The 70 000 seat stadium is due to be built by 2012 as mentioned before. There is still time this year.

As for lumping Celtic and Rangers.........the 'old firm'. Celtic doesn't need Rangers and never will. They will always have the rivalry and I'm sure they'll meet in the Scottish Cup over the next few years. Rangers will still have enough to win the third, second, and first division over the next three years. They will be back in no time.

50 million quid though........that's some number.....perhaps the 9 in a row in the 90s is hardly worth it now?


Mon the Celts.

 

[Rangerforever]

It sure was fun watching Gazza and Laurdrup bend you over though.

Good times.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Yes, it's all worth it now, RF. Should be a massive fixture next season against Cowdenbeath then Stirling Albion. Sorry, Cowdenbeath will be in division two next year as they are getting promoted. Should be some huge crowds at the new stadium for those fixtures.

It's all worth it now..........

 

[cside17]

Seriously, it is a sad day for SPL. That league needs both old firm to survive. If Rangers are demoted, it will have long reaching effects.

Did I actually say that,wow.

 

[johnnybluenose]

that's just it cside. we all know both sides of the OF have their factions that simply hate the other team, even more than their love for their own team, and they can't take off the biased-tinted glasses to see reality.

As much as Rangers and celtic have a hatred/fierce rivalry, they do need each other, that is unless the EPL is ready to accept Celtic in with open arms.

 

[Rangerforever]

That's not what Peter Lawwell says...

As long as we have more titles than you Captain, yes, it was worth it.


Seriously though Burnsie - This is fcuked up shite for Rangers.
I still can't believe it - It's almost surreal to me.
I pray we don't become another Leeds United like you're alluding to.

 

[sid]

Poor fukin animals don't have a stable to rest in!!
They should have done what Celtic did many moons ago & gave offering of shares to the fans & fan clubs etc

Like the old saying goes …records can be broken!!!history can't

 

[sid]

Hail,hail the Huns are done,the Huns are done & what the hell do we care ,
for there a shite old team to play for & a shite old team to see & is if you know their history it's enough to make u puke hard !!Oooohhhhhhhhh
Any as everybody knows ,that their show is going to close ,
really soon hopefully,really soon hopefullly

Get tae fukkkkkk ya animal bastards & burn in hell ya pagan bastards!!

Sid

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Seriously, it is a sad day for SPL. That league needs both old firm to survive. If Rangers are demoted, it will have long reaching effects.

Did I actually say that,wow.

Dislike.

Celtic don't need them.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

That's not what Peter Lawwell says...

As long as we have more titles than you Captain, yes, it was worth it.


Seriously though Burnsie - This is fcuked up shite for Rangers.
I still can't believe it - It's almost surreal to me.
I pray we don't become another Leeds United like you're alluding to.

I agree, RF........it is bizarre but I do know there were very few RAngers 'people' who were feeling sympathy for Celtic in the 90s when they had their biggest crisis.

 

[Rangerforever]

Agreed sadly.

I remember being in Glasgow in January '94 at St. Enoch's in the food fair (Where else would I be ) and that Canadian shareholder sat down at the table right beside me (Forget his name now) and I asked him how it was going.
He said 'Tough, but we'll get through it'.
And you did.

I hope we're still around so I can slag you more mate. :shake-hands:

 

[lll]

I obviously haven't followed this enough until the last week or so but why is Whyte getting raked over the coals when Murray has to be responsible for 99% of it

 

[Rangerforever]

It's these 'Employee Benefit Trusts' that are rumoured to be at the centre of the tax case and that was for sure during Murray's reign.

I think Murray's playing shocked and stunned on all this and saying he doesn't understand what's happened and that Whyte was well aware of what he was getting into...

The way I see it is we bought titles with an aggressive tax strategy that appears to have back fired on us.
Murray & the previous Board are responsible for that.

But, I could see Whyte telling everyone he'd fix it on the deal and maybe like I said earlier he's gambled and lost.
That, or he's been in way too fcuking deep over his head.
Going into Administration points the finger at Murray, Bain, etc. but Whyte could be guilty of broken promises too.

Who fcuking knows.

Still gutted.

 

[johnnybluenose]

Murray used the EBT's money that had piled up there to pay players and staff wages while the money wasn't flowing as freely, this affects the way those EBT's are taxed and that's the money HMRC is after from Rangers... I'm no moneyman but the way i read that is akin to having some sort of tax sheltered investment like an RRSP or something, then cashing it in to pay your mortgage while you have no cash on hand and then burying your head in the sand hoping nobody will notice when you fail to top it back up again. When you withdraw money from differently taxed deals you have to suffer the consequences.

My mates company used to take them on trips all over the place and set them up at resorts etc as perks of the job. They had to stop doing it or they would have had to start taxing their employees on "taxable benefits"...

Two certainties in life, taxes & death. sadly for Rangers they are on the brink on one because of the other.

 

[Rangerforever]

Here's a read:

BBC News - Sir David Murray and the fall of Rangers Football Club

 

[heanjob]

Here's a read:

BBC News - Sir David Murray and the fall of Rangers Football Club

Murray clearly put his ego ahead of all else and it is finally catching up to him. Whyte is an opportunist who would never of done this without seeking something in return. It all depends on HRMC's willingness to cooperate and if they are willing to compromise with the people's money.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

[h=2]Clydesdale Bank Scottish Premier League Table[/h]

	Last updated 2 days ago
Celtic team statistics	No movement 1	Celtic	26	37	65	11	1	1	27	6	10	1	2	26	10	Win Win Win Win Win Win Win Win Win Win
Rangers team statistics	No movement 2	Rangers	26	36	51	9	4	0	26	8	10	0	3	25	7	Win Win Draw Win Win Loss Loss Win Win Win
Motherwell team statistics	No movement 3	Motherwell	25	2	42	5	3	4	13	13	7	3	3	18	16	Draw Win Win Draw Loss Loss Loss Draw Win Draw
Hearts team statistics	No movement 4	Hearts	26	8	36	8	0	5	23	13	2	6	5	8	10	Draw Loss Loss Win Win Draw Win Win Loss Loss
St Johnstone team statistics	No movement 5	St Johnstone	25	1	35	4	1	8	15	22	6	4	2	18	10	Loss Loss Win Loss Win Win Loss Loss Loss Win
Dundee Utd team statistics	No movement 6	Dundee Utd	25	-1	30	3	4	5	12	13	4	5	4	26	26	Win Draw Loss Loss Draw Win Draw Win Loss Draw
Aberdeen team statistics	No movement 7	Aberdeen	26	-3	30	5	5	3	17	11	2	4	7	10	19	Draw Win Draw Draw Win Draw Loss Win Win Draw
Kilmarnock team statistics	No movement 8	Kilmarnock	25	-7	29	5	5	3	21	20	1	6	5	8	16	Draw Draw Loss Draw Win Loss Loss Draw Win Win
St Mirren team statistics	No movement 9	St Mirren	26	-11	28	4	4	5	13	14	2	6	5	12	22	Draw Draw Loss Loss Loss Draw Win Draw Draw Loss
Inverness CT team statistics	No movement 10	Inverness CT	25	-11	26	4	3	5	13	16	3	2	8	17	25	Loss Draw Win Win Draw Win Loss Loss Win Loss
Hibernian team statistics	No movement 11	Hibernian	25	-21	19	1	5	7	12	21	3	2	7	12	24	Draw Loss Loss Win Loss Draw Loss Loss Loss Loss
Dunfermline team statistics	No movement 12	Dunfermline	26	-30	18	0	5	8	15	36	4	1	8	13	22

This table charts the Clydesdale Bank Scottish Premier League teams
Team StatisticsPositionTeamPGDPtsHome WDLFAAway WDLFALast 10 games resultsMatch status

 

[Captain Shamrock]

View full table
IN ASSOCIATION WITH
No movement 1	Celtic	26	37	65
No movement 2	Rangers	26	36	51
No movement 3	Motherwell	25	2	42
No movement 4	Hearts	26	8	36
No movement 5	St Johnstone	25	1	35
No movement 6	Dundee Utd	25	-1	30
No movement 7	Aberdeen	26	-3	30
No movement 8	Kilmarnock	25	-7	29
No movement 9	St Mirren	26	-11	28
No movement 10	Inverness CT	25	-11	26
No movement 11	Hibernian	25	-21	19
No movement 12	Dunfermline	26	-30	18

PosTeamPGDPts