Ghouse, I'd like to enlist you to start a crusade against the RSSL having too many spots in the Provincial B Cup. They are receiving 3 spots (4 in some years), and I think it's completely unfair because the FVSL, VMSL, and VISL have a lot more teams on B forms than them!! Please can you find out how many teams each league has on B forms, and provide the mathematical analysis to determine what a fair distribution of provincial B cup spots would be? We all pay the same dues to BC Soccer, so it's only fair that we get the same opportunity to play in the Provincial B Cup!!
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VMSL Restructuring
- Thread starter gilly
- Start date
Captain Shamrock
Well-Known Member
Tongue in cheek.......but how many championships has Richmond won in the last lot of years?
I know one team who did the quad back in 2000.....I think.
Dezza good point.
The B Cup is really hard to figuar out. Because the B Provincials is a tournament with round robin play and takes place over 1 weekend in the Summer.So far from the end of the Season. Believe it or not ,alot of teams who qualify do not want to take part. To stay together and train for 4 months for 1 weekend, a weekend in Summer where some of the players may have family plans already. Just isnt as popular as the A Provincials.
If you win the Bs..thats it ,no Nationals either.
So alot of teams just are not up to it.
Infact I am not sure why Prince George even held the Bs last year because they are not a full member of the BCSA.
I think they play on C forms like Kelowna,Kamloops and many other smaller Soccer communities.
Really the B Provincials do need an overhaul and a good look at by the members because something for sure is not right with how it all works.
Again though..its not that important I guess, as said before, teams turn down the right to play all the time and there are no Nationals to follow...so im thinking that its not to high up on the priority list.
RSSL hosted 2 years ago, then PG who are not full members and now Richmond are hosting it again . Already. That says to me that they are more interested in the tournament than all the other Leagues or someone else would have asked to be the host.
The B Cup is really hard to figuar out. Because the B Provincials is a tournament with round robin play and takes place over 1 weekend in the Summer.So far from the end of the Season. Believe it or not ,alot of teams who qualify do not want to take part. To stay together and train for 4 months for 1 weekend, a weekend in Summer where some of the players may have family plans already. Just isnt as popular as the A Provincials.
If you win the Bs..thats it ,no Nationals either.
So alot of teams just are not up to it.
Infact I am not sure why Prince George even held the Bs last year because they are not a full member of the BCSA.
I think they play on C forms like Kelowna,Kamloops and many other smaller Soccer communities.
Really the B Provincials do need an overhaul and a good look at by the members because something for sure is not right with how it all works.
Again though..its not that important I guess, as said before, teams turn down the right to play all the time and there are no Nationals to follow...so im thinking that its not to high up on the priority list.
RSSL hosted 2 years ago, then PG who are not full members and now Richmond are hosting it again . Already. That says to me that they are more interested in the tournament than all the other Leagues or someone else would have asked to be the host.
Captain Shamrock
Well-Known Member
Or the community does a good job hosting events.......and has good facilities to do so
In the spirit of the original thread. Here is my suggestion for restructuring the VMSL. There are roughly 90 teams currently playing open-age soccer in the VMSL. This is the ideal distribution of them:
Premier (10 teams - A forms)
Division 1 (10 teams - A forms)
Division 2 (10 teams - A forms)
Division 3 (20 teams - B forms*)
Division 4 (40 teams - B forms*)
*If for some reason BC Soccer decides to look at the number of teams on A forms as a determining factor for each league's entries into the Provincial A Cup, we can put the lower divisions on A forms too and return the Imperial Cup to a full FA Cup style competition that includes all teams registered with the league.
Premier (10 teams - A forms)
Division 1 (10 teams - A forms)
Division 2 (10 teams - A forms)
Division 3 (20 teams - B forms*)
Division 4 (40 teams - B forms*)
*If for some reason BC Soccer decides to look at the number of teams on A forms as a determining factor for each league's entries into the Provincial A Cup, we can put the lower divisions on A forms too and return the Imperial Cup to a full FA Cup style competition that includes all teams registered with the league.
number10hamburgler
New Member
Interesting to note the past 10 winners of the Provincial B Cup:
Since 2000, 5-6 times won by RSSL teams. Once by Prince George.
Figures why they are so into it.
2009-Richmond All Blacks
2008-IG MicroMed Dragons FC
2007-IGM Dragons
2006-Westside Rino
2005-Richmond All Blacks
2004-Campbell River
2003-Shamrock Rovers
2002-Saltspring FC
2001-Prince George Croatia
2000-Richmond Town Celtics
In terms of hosting, it's better to keep it at Richmond if no one else wants to host and keep it local. Cause travelling to places like Prince George and so on, probably adds to teams pulling out of the competition. But it's definitely a competition worth keeping. Good introduction to teams and players looking to earn a Provincial A spot somewhere down the road.
Would be interesting to see what member leagues and divisions are involved, how many spots FVSL get, and so on.
Regs,
Don't you want to be preached to about Provincial Spots, BCPL and how freaken great the FVSL in every thread
GHOUSE take your nonsense to one of the ten threads that you have started and leave others to discuss something that has absolutly nothing to do with you
On Topic...
I think that the process put in place for this year has to be abided by. Teams have had all year to work towards promotion and should not have that taken away from them. You can not change the rules at the end of the year. Next year arrange to have Priemier and Div 1 with 12 teams each to expand the season to 22 games.
Don't you want to be preached to about Provincial Spots, BCPL and how freaken great the FVSL in every thread
GHOUSE take your nonsense to one of the ten threads that you have started and leave others to discuss something that has absolutly nothing to do with you
On Topic...
I think that the process put in place for this year has to be abided by. Teams have had all year to work towards promotion and should not have that taken away from them. You can not change the rules at the end of the year. Next year arrange to have Priemier and Div 1 with 12 teams each to expand the season to 22 games.
I did start my own thread Regs and you all highjacked it with Punjab voice over funnys. So its ok to jump my thread but not ok for me to jump others....
Whats wrong ..Am I pushing the wrong buttons..Is everyone finding out how corrupt and unfair the way things are being run....I never said we deserve more spots and you know it..What was said was the VMSL should keep thier spots when following the rules...you break the rules you lose your spots. (thats why there are rules)
Im not an idiot. Dont try and turn it around to make it seem that way..The VMSL just got caught pulling a fast one and everyone has a right to know.
A right to fix it...And if you side with anyone who blatantly breaks the rules ..then what does that make you.
If you think its only me talking about this you are wrong..Executives are being called by others and things are being looked into right now because this is serious shti.
How did it happen....Well from what I have been told now by a few is, when the 4 leagues met to discuss this years Provincials the BCPL was still a go. So they all agreed to auto place the BCPL teams and then carry the rest on as usual. They all agreed to place the final teams in on the same format ,9,5,5,1 as before. That number based on "A" forms.
so 4 ,3,3, from BCPL and then 5,2,2,1 .
They all agreed. After BCPL berths same as last year.
Then WA said that they should look into a new way of chooseing provincial berths, similar to the way the Champions league runs ,where the amount of places each league qualifies for is based on the history each league has in the Provincials going back 5 years 50 % And by the number of A forms 50%.
No vote took place as it was a suggestion and from what I was told no one liked the Idea.
Everyone agreed to keep it the way it was before...
But what was NOT told to anyone was that the VMSL was changeing the number of A form players/teams. 20 teams from A to B forms.
He must have forgot to mention that....That most important info which would have made everyone there vote differently than to keep things the way the were. Because infact by changeing the number of A forms you are NOT the same as you were the year before.
I can tell you the other leagues upon finding out this info were/are not happy as they all feel they had 1 pulled over them by a trusted caleague.
If all the info was put on the table. NOT hidden. The vote would have been different.
Well I can asure you all that next year things will be different.
How different. What is being looked into right now is.. When does any league need to reveal how many "A" form teams/players they have?.
If the ruleing comes back that they do not have to let anyone know, because full registration has not finnished (makes sense),then what you have from the previous year determines your allotted berths.
Meaning next year the VMSL has just lost 2 berths from 9 to 7
And if you think this will just be brushed under the rug...After all that has been done this year..I can tell you that it will be delt with.
So Look for the VMSL to bring the CAT teams back to A forms.
cause the FVSL will have 30 A form teams next year to 32 A form VMSL teams..without them.
FYI the 2nd div of CAT have always been on B forms. I don't think anything was hidden from anyone. All registration goes through BC soccer so they know exactly who is on what forms. Additionally the request to have Cat A teams on B forms came from the teams and didn't get league approval until the end of summer when BC soccer stated that the number of teams on A forms was not factored into the alottment of provincial births.
The latest I've heard is that the league is prepared to go forward with a 14 team premier division next year.
The latest I've heard is that the league is prepared to go forward with a 14 team premier division next year.
ghouse,
apart from your team (and maybe 1-2 others), the fvsl premier teams cannot compete with the vmsl. trust me, i know. i played fvsl premier for 8 years before moving over to the vmsl.
hell, the allstar games have become a joke, with the fvsl players not wanting to show up against the vmsl... due to the repeated fistings the fvsl takes.
take a good hard look at the provincial results over the past 10 years... even past 2 years since you say the valley is getting stronger. if a valley team ever wins it is considered a major upset... in the same manner as when a div 1 team beats a premier team in the imperial.
get over it. you should've followed through with buying delta last year, rather than backing out of your commitment with your "the bc league is going through and im getting a spot through the fvsl" parting comment. we know you want to have the best competition, so do what every other good valley club has done... join the vmsl.
on topic... 14 teams next year for the vmsl premier is nuts... 26 league games??? are you kidding me? i'd like to see it eventually go back to 10. 18 league games is just right. 12 teams this year... 10 teams next year. every game would be a battle.
Eventually....
10 premier
20 div 1 (10A and 10B)
20 div 2 (10A and 10B)
if you're in div 2 or lower, you have no real aspirations to play premier... lets be honest. if you did, you would "merge" with a div 1 team.
my 2 bits.
apart from your team (and maybe 1-2 others), the fvsl premier teams cannot compete with the vmsl. trust me, i know. i played fvsl premier for 8 years before moving over to the vmsl.
hell, the allstar games have become a joke, with the fvsl players not wanting to show up against the vmsl... due to the repeated fistings the fvsl takes.
take a good hard look at the provincial results over the past 10 years... even past 2 years since you say the valley is getting stronger. if a valley team ever wins it is considered a major upset... in the same manner as when a div 1 team beats a premier team in the imperial.
get over it. you should've followed through with buying delta last year, rather than backing out of your commitment with your "the bc league is going through and im getting a spot through the fvsl" parting comment. we know you want to have the best competition, so do what every other good valley club has done... join the vmsl.
on topic... 14 teams next year for the vmsl premier is nuts... 26 league games??? are you kidding me? i'd like to see it eventually go back to 10. 18 league games is just right. 12 teams this year... 10 teams next year. every game would be a battle.
Eventually....
10 premier
20 div 1 (10A and 10B)
20 div 2 (10A and 10B)
if you're in div 2 or lower, you have no real aspirations to play premier... lets be honest. if you did, you would "merge" with a div 1 team.
my 2 bits.
fuk me, the league player depth is not good enough to have 14 premier teams... Thats four more than their should be (12 is a stretch)
i can just imagine as next season winds down ...
the bottom premier teams tired of taking a SHITPUMPINGS all year will not be able to field a full squad..
Embarrassing to say the least.. Larrson will have a field day with that one...
well in W.A.
i can just imagine as next season winds down ...
the bottom premier teams tired of taking a SHITPUMPINGS all year will not be able to field a full squad..
Embarrassing to say the least.. Larrson will have a field day with that one...
well in W.A.
Ghouse,
You've fcuking spewed over and over about how all you and Millsy have wanted is what's best for BC soccer and the quality, and that is why you poor bastards are so upset with the VMSL teams. Because they just can't see what's right for the development of the game. Yet, now being a petty little fcuk, you want to lower the quality of the Provincial Cup by adding more shite teams to it, and taking away deserving teams. Can you spell HYPOCRITES? Just admit, none of this was for developing the game, it was for personal agendas that a few of you have. It shines through every time you open your yap.
You've fcuking spewed over and over about how all you and Millsy have wanted is what's best for BC soccer and the quality, and that is why you poor bastards are so upset with the VMSL teams. Because they just can't see what's right for the development of the game. Yet, now being a petty little fcuk, you want to lower the quality of the Provincial Cup by adding more shite teams to it, and taking away deserving teams. Can you spell HYPOCRITES? Just admit, none of this was for developing the game, it was for personal agendas that a few of you have. It shines through every time you open your yap.
My personal agenda..you should talk ..Burnaby to surrey to norvan to delta all in 4/5 years .. And its my personal agenda being questioned..
And moveing players from team to team to team to team ..that helps develop the game too I guess.
Now being petty..you call breaking the fricken rules ok and im petty for wanting only what is right.
I want what is fair for all paid equal members..Your the one supporting an agenda of personal gain by supporting rule breaking to keep more of your teams in the Provincials.
Good or not means nothing. If you pay your money and are in a league you get treated fair.
Why not just have the VMSL in the Provincials alone then.
Your WAC to think we are just going to sit back and watch you all who have ran things for YOUR personal gain for years.
Well not anymore.
No personal gain here,Im already in the Provincials. Whats fair has to be fair. Who gives a rats ass whos better...thats as important as who has the largest jock strap.
Quality of soccer is not the issue here ,its How many teams you get for the Provincial tournament......And the number of "A" forms determines that. PERIOD.
So follow the rules, and keep your 9 spots is all we ask.
But dont fricken break the rules and expect us to just sit here and do nothing.
How good you are comes at the end of the tournament.
Exactly. So let's give the FVSL more spots in the Provincials.
How many times in the past 10 years has a FVSL team made it to the Provincial final? How many times has a VMSL team that finished lower than 5th in our season won the Provincials? Until the FVSL as a whole proves itself deserving of more spots, why should you get more? Just because you think it makes sense on paper doesn't mean it's the right decision.
I hate to say it, but I think we have to go to 14 teams next year and then bring it back down to 12. Now that we have turf fields and there are very few games cancelled because of field closures, 12 teams and 22 games are the perfect amount in the Premier division.
soccerking
New Member
G-House stop being so jealous of the VMSL and instead of using your money to pay players, maybe you should use it to pay for psychological help.
It's time to move on.
Good luck
It's time to move on.
Good luck
All piss takeing and Bashing aside.
I do agree the top VMSL Premier teams are better.
But that is not important when it comes to Provincials.
All leagues based on registration are to be represented equally.
The more players you have and in this case signed to "A" forms the more spots you get.
Fair is fair and a good rule.
The VMSLs Premier is better and so they have signed (traditionally) more players to "A" forms so they could have more representation at the "A" Provincials. A great Idea and well worth it because again they have better Premier teams and should be well represented.
But because we all pay the same registration fee and all follow the same rules set forth.
We must be fair. Just because you are better does not mean you get more berths.
Or this year Calgary could say they should get more Alberta teams in the Nationals because they were better 2 years in a row.
But that does not promote the sport and that is certianly not fair or the right way to do things.
The "A" form rule is what we have and it is whats fair.
All I am saying is stick to the fricken rules here.
Just because you are better does not give you the right to bend or break the rules.
My god is that so hard to understand.
I dont want to water down the Provincials and I dont want anything more than what is set forth in the rules and whats fair for all who have paid the same registration fee.
Are you all so thick skulled that I am seen as the crazy person just out for me...When I am not the one breaking the rules . I am only the one who stood up and said..Hey thats not right.
For far to long a very few have run things to thier likeing..But this sport isnt just a 1 league sport anymore and lots more teams and leagues will be growing and comeing out on "A" forms as time moves forward.
The small shitity FVSL is now just as big as the VMSL. And growing I might add.
They are not going away. And if they have more "A" form registered players they will get more Provincial spots because thats how it works and what is fair.
Unfortunatly the quality of soccer in each league means nothing.
Infact that is what the Provincials are for...To see who is the best.
The best at that particular time...Not the past, not the future but that season...ONLY
The "A" form rule is awsome because it makes sense. Its fair. And for many years to come it still will work because it makes sense.
Its not how good you are but how many of you, there are...Why? Because we are all just amatures haveing fun on an equal playing field....
I do agree the top VMSL Premier teams are better.
But that is not important when it comes to Provincials.
All leagues based on registration are to be represented equally.
The more players you have and in this case signed to "A" forms the more spots you get.
Fair is fair and a good rule.
The VMSLs Premier is better and so they have signed (traditionally) more players to "A" forms so they could have more representation at the "A" Provincials. A great Idea and well worth it because again they have better Premier teams and should be well represented.
But because we all pay the same registration fee and all follow the same rules set forth.
We must be fair. Just because you are better does not mean you get more berths.
Or this year Calgary could say they should get more Alberta teams in the Nationals because they were better 2 years in a row.
But that does not promote the sport and that is certianly not fair or the right way to do things.
The "A" form rule is what we have and it is whats fair.
All I am saying is stick to the fricken rules here.
Just because you are better does not give you the right to bend or break the rules.
My god is that so hard to understand.
I dont want to water down the Provincials and I dont want anything more than what is set forth in the rules and whats fair for all who have paid the same registration fee.
Are you all so thick skulled that I am seen as the crazy person just out for me...When I am not the one breaking the rules . I am only the one who stood up and said..Hey thats not right.
For far to long a very few have run things to thier likeing..But this sport isnt just a 1 league sport anymore and lots more teams and leagues will be growing and comeing out on "A" forms as time moves forward.
The small shitity FVSL is now just as big as the VMSL. And growing I might add.
They are not going away. And if they have more "A" form registered players they will get more Provincial spots because thats how it works and what is fair.
Unfortunatly the quality of soccer in each league means nothing.
Infact that is what the Provincials are for...To see who is the best.
The best at that particular time...Not the past, not the future but that season...ONLY
The "A" form rule is awsome because it makes sense. Its fair. And for many years to come it still will work because it makes sense.
Its not how good you are but how many of you, there are...Why? Because we are all just amatures haveing fun on an equal playing field....
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